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I am having the unfortunate dichotomy of experiencing a disdain for my wayward for what she did and put the family through while at the same time feeling empathy for her fuckedupedness that led her down the path she took.

She walks on eggshells regularly in fear that she has done something to anger me. That I may experience a trigger. That I may just up and leave. She admittedly lives in a constant fear that I may wake up one morning and say I can’t do this anymore. And she is right, because I have given it deep consideration many a night.

She speaks to her friend who is in the throes of an affair, and tells her how bad off she is, and how not worth it what she is doing is, and how much damage she is causing, and having it all fall on deaf ears.
There is a certain level of disgust she feels with her friend. But I know it is also with herself because her friend is a mirror to her during her A. She knows that at that time, she would not have listened to anyone either.

Then there are the times that we may meet someone new, a business associate, client or coworker. They often speak on how beautiful she is and how she is such a great wife. I see those uncomfortable smiles, I feel her shame as she knows that I no longer see her that way, and she feels she is not those things. The shame is palpable.

These are some of the consequences of her actions.
She invalidated the safety in her own marriage through her own actions. Yet I know that it is no way for a person to live.
Constantly in fear, constantly in stress. Scared.

I feel empathy even though I am not at all an empathic person. That empathy is mixed into an emotional gumbo of anger, loathing, love, sorrow, compassion, revulsion. I despise her for putting us here, I despise myself for no longer despising her.

I feel guilty for not being more receptive to everything she has/is trying to do to be a better person and wife…everything she is doing to make amends.

I no longer call her names…and I am well past that stage. Yet I still think to myself how stupid she was. How she destroyed her marriage for the compliments and attention of some loser who cared nothing for her other than what he could use her for. How she damaged the life we built for something so fleeting.

Yet I am wondering why I don’t hate her…i wonder why I truly didn’t leave when I should’ve…i wonder would I be better off with someone else new without the baggage we now carry.

I look at her and try to see her humanity, feel the empathy and move on, but what I feel is a lot of nothingness.

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated

As my name would suggest, I like Marvel movies. Iron Man 3 reference incoming, hope it’s not too obscure.

In that movie, characters are injected with an internal fire. To some it becomes a super power, to others it explodes. For some, showing that grace and empathy to their wayward is part of the journey to a new good relationship. For others, it ends up in prolonged, indefinite misery. You showing grace, giving empathy is part of you doing what you can toward R. But it’s no guarantee of success and if it all ends up blowing up, you shouldn’t ignore it and you aren’t to blame.

You are ahead of me I think TrayDee. I am feeling these things too. WS is on eggshells. I think of leaving constantly.

I also feel "some" empathy but more because if we are to get through this, she has to get through this.

She walks on eggshells regularly in fear that she has done something to anger me. That I may experience a trigger. That I may just up and leave. She admittedly lives in a constant fear that I may wake up one morning and say I can’t do this anymore. And she is right, because I have given it deep consideration many a night.

This is where we're at right now, almost 7 months post d day. I completely empathize with your position. I fell into a pretty rough half day long spiral just the other day, and she was completely miserable and apologetic the whole time, but we got through it.

Your story is really close to mine. Long marriage (27 years), we disconnected, 3 trysts with a co worker involving hotel rooms, ego kibbles, used her, made her feel desirable, deep remorse, walking on eggshells, fear of triggers and me leaving, etc. Just... damn. I never really went through a name calling phase, tho I did point out a couple of times "so he basically treated you like a common whore, and you went along with it..." That really hit her hard.

It's a really tough situation, but we are working through it. She's completely changed. She's been breaking her back to bend over and make amends. She doesn't shut down discussions when I get triggered, she answers my questions when I ask them, even if it's the hundredth time I've asked it. I believe she's changed. I believe she's truly remorseful. I believe I still am, and always have been, her number 1. I still love her, and I know she loves me.

I still struggle with ruminating and mind movies. I go through a lot of the same feelings you're going through, but I do still love her. I believe she would never do anything like this again. I know she feels horrible about her choices and actions, and would give anything for a do-over so she could have made different choices and never let it happen in the first place. All that said, I think we're going to make it. I've pretty much mostly forgiven her, but certainly not forgotten it. I'm still hurting, but she's hyper sensitive to it, and I'm cutting her some slack because there were also some extenuating circumstances given that she's epileptic, has some cognitive blindspots from a head injury when she was a baby, and had just been put on a new anti seizure med that is infamous for inducing rage and personality changes.

Do you love her? Are you convinced that she's changed or at least will never, ever do something like this again? Right now I focus on where we're at currently. Which, when I'm not triggered or spiraling, is far better than we ever have been. Communication has completely opened up, intimacy and affection has gone into overdrive, and we're much, much closer now. We're no longer disconnected. So basically, minus the infidelity, we have the marriage we always should have. She really is my best friend, and I'm hers. I've decided that I want to keep what we have now, so I'm giving her a lot of grace, and yes, I do empathize with her. I know she's disgusted with herself and absolutely hates what she's done to our marriage. She's hurting, too, and she's terrified I'm going to wake up one day and just leave. So I've been reassuring her, as she continues to reassure me.

I think we have something worth salvaging. I think a lot about where we're at now, and try not to let thinking about the past overshadow that. Her words and actions have gone a long way toward my healing, and I think we still have something worth salvaging. The old marriage is dead. Gone. Kaput. She murdered it, but I think in a lot of ways that might just be a good thing. Right now I'm focused on the present and future, and trying not to live in the past.

Tray, I could have written a very similar post many years ago. I probably did, just can’t remember.

At some point in time, I did start to feel empathy for my wife (now ex). It took a while. It took a lot of reading here, particularly in the W forum before I learned a simple truth about infidelity. Today I write this so often my "smart" phone has it memorized.

I believe that infidelity is self-destructive. We, the betrayed, are collateral damage.

That damage, of course, is so overwhelming its incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to see past our own pain.

It's a mixed bag, of course, as you've stated, because it almost seems... hypocritical, inherently contradictory, to have empathy for some who hurt us so profoundly.

It may take some more time and reflection to iron out this dichotomy.

Infidelity is crazy-making shit.

I have spoken to you many times on this site. And this struggle you feel is always palpable to me.

This is going to seem sort of backwards, but this is what I think:

I think that your wife needs to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. Her walking on eggshells is a constant reminder for you. You can be remorseful and still grow into a stronger version of yourself.

One example- you talked once about your disdain for how she deals with her mother. She will sort of hide things from her. This is weak to you and reminds you of her double dealings.

I feel like your wife needs to take her power back. It’s hard to fall in love with someone who is seemingly just accommodating you. To fight for her marriage I think she is going to have to show you she isn’t going to be avoidant. All this conflict avoiding is not making you feel safe.

Now, you may just be completely not able to get vulnerable with her again, but has she become someone you can be that with?

I think often reconciliation requires being able to see the person in front of you has grown from the person who put a knife in your back.

Now, could this still be a deal breaker for you? Yes. But you remind me a bit of waited too long. I think he eventually had to hold in his anger because of how his wife was so afraid to not be anything but completely accommodating. Would he have divorced if she wasn’t so willing to take his scraps? There is a big possibility it would still be yes. But we do not want to be married to someone who cowers, we want someone who when they fuxk up they stand tall and own it and grow from it.

I have no doubt in reading you for so long she is remorseful and wants this marriage with you to work again. I personally think she is going about it the wrong way. She should be proactive and not reactive and I believe that’s what I hear from you in a lot of your posts. You believe she is sorry, you may even believe she won’t do it again. I think those are reasonable beliefs from what you describe of her. But you don’t see the change in her. She needs to get braver and also say this is no way for her to live. I think then she could actually redeem a little respect from you if she did, whether or not you could begin to fall in love with her again is somewhat of an unknown.

She needs to show she loves herself, respects herself. It will change her behavior from the ground up. That doesn’t mean she should not show remorse or be humble. But this version of her where she is just sort of chasing you is not going to turn the dynamic of your relationship.

And in the end at some point you will have to decide to accept that this happened and act in your best interest, but it’s hard to get there if she is falling all over herself all the time. It just reminds you of her weakness and you need her to be more of a rock.

And in the end this may be something you can’t accept and you will have to leave the marriage. But I have some idea that isn’t the whole issue yet.

She needs to deal with her shame and if she can see herself in a new light you may be able to as well.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:00 PM, Wednesday, November 5th]

Have you talked with her about the eggshells? If not, I think talking is a good idea. I know I wanted my W to be real. I hated it when she wasn't/isn't.

I believe empathy for the WS is entirely appropriate. I also believe it's separate from the stay/go decision.

The disdain, otoh, is a very real problem. My reco is to stay with yourself a while. I suspect that going through cycles of disdain and desire means you're still undecided. If you stop cycling, you've got a direction - disdain means go, desire means stay. (I went through that cycle, too; for me, the cycling stopped on desire.)

My ExWW became mired in this Toxic Shame, then everything became about her. I found myself supporting and reassuring her more than her, me. She became the victim-of her own making. She resided in her pity pot, and I in mine, and this drew us further apart.

She lived in constant fear that I would just up and leave, that things would never be special again, that I would never get over it, never look at her the same again, never respect her, never love her the same again, the damage just too profound, and maybe she was right, maybe.

I found myself constantly reassuring HER, and this began to make me resentful. Like OP, I too felt empathy for my WS’s pathetic state of brokenness and her position. It was a confusing-conflicting mix of emotions, empathy vs. disgust.

I think successfully reconciling Waywards boldly and selflessly throw themselves into R regardless of their odds of success. They do it for even the slightest chance at saving the marriage, remaining with their BS. They transcend their own fears and doubts while focusing on their BS. This act of unconditional love-effort, no matter the risks, no matter the odds, no matter the sacrifice is, I think, a chief ingredient in the recipe for a successful R.

But I will never know as my marriage never made it beyond this point.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 3:34 PM, Wednesday, November 5th]

I think this may be one of the cases where it might do you and your WS some good if she started visiting the wayward forum here. Most of the time it’s not advised, but I think where the two of you are now it might help. Think on that a bit.

I would like to thank everyone for their responses, I have spent the day mulling them over and thinking about each one….it has given me a lot to consider and several different perspectives to process.

RealityBlows

She lived in constant fear that I would just up and leave, that things would never be special again, that I would never get over it, never look at her the same again, never respect her, never love her the same again, the damage just too profound, and maybe she was right, maybe.

I found myself constantly reassuring HER, and this began to make me resentful. Like OP, I too felt empathy for my WS’s pathetic state of brokenness and her position. It was a confusing-conflicting mix of emotions, empathy vs. disgust.

I have a lot of this going on. It pisses me off that I have to reassure her after what she did, but I know that it is necessary. I try to do it in the most truthful way that I can but I won’t lie to her. I told her on more than one occasion that it is possible that I never get over it, never have the same view of her or the same respect for her. Maybe it will come in a new form, maybe there will be a new type of respect as we head toward being empty nesters and the seasons of life change, but I doubt it could ever be "the same"

Sisoon

Have you talked with her about the eggshells? If not, I think talking is a good idea. I know I wanted my W to be real. I hated it when she wasn't/isn't.

I have had that talk and it turned into another session of her shrinking and me having to comfort her. I guess this is where my disdain comes from…that I wasn’t the one that blew up the marriage but I have to help fix it.
I once likened it to her throwing a stick of dynamite into the living room because we had a leaky faucet and a broken stove.
As in a lot of affairs, she rewrote the marriage. Then after counseling she realized she catastrophized our marriage to justify her behaviors. However during that short tine frame, a month or 2 after Dday, I heard her say things that still sting that were completely off base. I cant get those out of my head so when they come up, she just folds. She says she never meant them and she was not thinking straight when she said them, but they are there nonetheless.

Hikingout.
You as usual have touched on quite a few points that I have to examine….

I feel like your wife needs to take her power back. It’s hard to fall in love with someone who is seemingly just accommodating you. To fight for her marriage I think she is going to have to show you she isn’t going to be avoidant. All this conflict avoiding is not making you feel safe.

Her conflict avoidance has given me the ick in a subconscious way. The firs couple of decades we were together, she was not like that, or if she was it was so small that I didn’t see it. It began to manifest with our children for couple of years. She would give in to anything to make them not be mad, even when she knew it was not best. She has started to come out of that a little in the last year but it does make me feel some kind of way

Now, you may just be completely not able to get vulnerable with her again, but has she become someone you can be that with?

I think often reconciliation requires being able to see the person in front of you has grown from the person who put a knife in your back.

For me it is the opposite, I feel like I have always been vulnerable to a point, but now I am more so than ever, because I simply do not give a crap. It is strangely freeing to be able to say what I need to after infidelity. I feel like what’s the worst that can happen….it already has. I have nothing left to lose. However I know I would be wrong to NOT acknowledge the ways that she has grown in the last few years. Just generally trying to be mindful of herself, and work on her traumas and trying to heal them instead of just burying everything. I feel after all we have been through together, I do owe her that.

Now, could this still be a deal breaker for you? Yes. But you remind me a bit of waited too long. I think he eventually had to hold in his anger because of how his wife was so afraid to not be anything but completely accommodating. Would he have divorced if she wasn’t so willing to take his scraps? There is a big possibility it would still be yes. But we do not want to be married to someone who cowers, we want someone who when they fuxk up they stand tall and own it and grow from it.

You are correct. I have studied Waitedwaytoolong and his post history deeply. I felt a lot of the same things he described and could relate immensely. While there are always differences in the circumstances between any two situations I feel akin to him.
However I also have learned from him in that he once said, he was so angry with himself that he could help himself from being so cold and harsh with his wife. It helped me get to the point where I am now. As with him, my wife helped us build a great life and is well worthy of praise for the job she has done. Her A aside, the family, the business, none of it is successful without her efforts. Couple that with the fact that I am not the "hard charging" worker I once was I can lighten up and see things in a more empathic light.
Or maybe it is just the POLF.