I think we do them better by helping them understand that while *true* R does successfully happen, it’s (by far) the exception and not the rule.
Sorry gr8ful, I’m not picking on you specifically, this was just an easy quote to respond to the larger sentiment. BUT SERIOUSLY, has anyone ever read anyone here who advocates for R as the rule? I’ve been here a while now and I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone profess that R, even if both partners want it, is a guarantee. NO ONE IS SAYING THAT. R is not for everyone – I think EVERYONE agrees on that. It’s hard and grueling and there are so many factors stacked against it, even when both people are (seemingly) all in. It is absolutely a gamble. True happiness in any marriage is not guaranteed. There are plenty of marriages where infidelity has not occurred, that are unhappy.
R has been successful for my husband and me and while I don't profess to having a perfect marriage, it's a happy one. While I’d love to say that I’m special and wonderful and take credit for this, I don’t think I'm some sort of special unicorn with some magical guaranteed formula for success. I can only speak to what worked for us. I’m also well aware that just because things are going well now, does not guarantee the future. But, I’m happy now and that is what matters. I rarely think of the A these days. Literally the only reason I stick around at this point, is because I really appreciated and benefited from hearing success stories, and words of encouragement, and strategies for optimism when I was a new BS and I feel some responsibility to pay that forward. If I didn’t feel this sense of duty to stick around, I’d be long gone – like many of the happily reconciled members who helped me in the early days. It makes 100% sense to me that they have moved on, while the people who are struggling in R, or have experienced new d-days would be overrepresented here. To that end…
How many members have returned with another dday? So very many.
Sure, I understand why it would feel this way, but this is an example of the anecdotal fallacy and probably a touch of confirmation bias. If the majority of my experience with car drivers was through the people I met at the auto collision shop, I might also get a skewed impression of just how likely it is to get into a car accident. I understand that the desire to want to understand the probabilities/statistics for success in R but it’s impossible to know and even if you could, the "odds" in a general sense wouldn’t determine your specific odds.
I no longer believe in reconciliation. AND THAT'S OK. People on here get very offended when members don't think R is a viable,good option. As if it somehow affects their situation. It doesn't. But it is a valid belief. Just as valid as those who do believe in reconciliation.
Believing that R can happen for some people is not the same as saying true R does not exist. It’s a false equivalence to suggest that my opinion that R was right for me is the same as your opinion that R is not viable at all, particularly where your belief necessarily discounts my existence/experience. If your opinion was that R was a bad choice FOR YOU, and you wish you hadn’t done it – perfectly valid. If your opinion was that R is not worth the effort/risk for most people – that is valid too, though you obviously can't speak to the intricacies of another person's cost/benefit analysis. If your opinion is that R will not be successful for a particular BS because of X,Y, and Z reason specific to their relationship based on your experences with the same - cool. But suggesting that true R doesn’t exist or is a unicorn (aka mythical or unattainable, by definition) necessarily suggests that you think I’m lying to myself and others. You are, of course, entitled to hold that opinion of me, but I’m not going to apologize for taking away your "safe space to share your feelings" when I counter it. You can have whatever feelings you want, but feelings aren’t facts, and it’s irresponsible to couch your feelings as facts when there are so many people here who are lost and looking for direction.
Try being a bs who had a truly remorseful ws, who did the work, and they cheat again. Instead of rushing in to shame someone in my situation for having the feelings we have, maybe try and put yourself in our position.
Who is rushing to shame anyone? No one is discounting YOUR experience. I’m not sitting here saying that re-offenders are unicorns and don’t exist (and thereby implying that you’re lying to yourself). I’m not even trying to hypothesize the various reasons why your R might not have been true R, and is therefore an exception. I’ll take you at your word that you had true R (can you see why it would be insulting if I suggested otherwise?). I absolutely understand why someone in your shoes would feel the way you do. You can (and should) speak from your experience, as long as you appreciate that your experience is not universal.
I know the following will piss people off. That's ok.
Are we? Are we talking to survivors in reconciliation? Or have they just not had another dday yet?
I’m far enough out and confident enough in my new marriage that this doesn’t hurt me. There is absolutely a time that it would have though. As someone who R’d once Hellfire, I imagine you know that - and perhaps that was the point. I imagine that for a lot of people early in R, the biggest fear is learning about false R/another affair. My stomach used to drop every time I read "I’m back" stories and they were a huge trigger for me for a while. So yes, I have certainly imagined being in your shoes. I agree with you that my imagination likely doesn’t begin to capture the depth of what your actual experience has been. That said, it is a bit rich to ask for understanding and empathy while posting things that seem almost purpose-designed to be hurtful to others. Most cancer survivors are well-aware of the risk of remission but I think we can agree it would be in poor form to call them, "people whose cancer has not come back yet".
I also observe that it tends to generate more discord and division in this community than anything else I can think of.
Oh man, you should see the threads where someone tries to claim that infidelity is more painful for one sex than another. I recall some of these debates that went on for easily 50 pages.
[This message edited by emergent8 at 10:46 PM, Wednesday, December 20th]