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found an item that was to be used by April 1961 !!

OK, that's just pathological! My kid goes through our stuff occasionally, and if it's expired even a month ago, she lectures us and throws it out. I tend to go through non-perishables every year or so. H tends to hang on to expired OTC meds because he's worked in pharmaceutical research for his whole career and ignores expiration dates (will grin snidely and say they're just suggestions).

Ah, 1961...what a good year that was....can't blame her for wanting time to stop, back when life made so much more sense, eh?

I'm only half kidding...but I do think that is a record of some sort.

How did that make you feel?

I am sure the task feels never-ending but you are getting there. I admire you and have been following your updates so I just wanted to pop in with a little cheer for you!

I know this task is coming down the pike for me so I have been taking in all your blood, sweat & tear posts.

That is very interesting about the Christmas card; the validation of what your heart knew as a child. Your mom sounds like she did an amazing job navigating that back in the day. I mean, she knew how they were and still went above and beyond!

Grrr. I got a message from my brother yesterday. He's upset that I left a bag of garbage outside, and apparently an animal tore it open and he doesn't "understand why this bag wasn't put in the bin that was empty." It's all I can do not to message back and say "I don't understand why there's a motorcycle in mom's house but here we are."

Has there been a world shortage of bay leaves? I found them all today.

Oooh, send me some! I'm down to the last of a jar of Turkish Bay leaves my late brother brought me back in 2005, still work great in stews and pickles. Matter of fact, since you couldn't sell them, maybe call your local food banks and see if they'd appreciate them as a donation. Many, many ethnic cuisines use them and who among the homeless or impoverished has money for freakin' bay leaves? (I do see them sold in bulk plastic bags at hispanic stores...so maybe there isn't a shortage!?)

I like your mom!!!

I don't think that food banks will take opened items, and this is a big problem at mom's. Even though there were ~10 bags of bay leaves (and big ones at that), they were all opened, and she has always been notorious for not trying in the least to seal bags or containers. Just doesn't have the sense to realize that not sealing leads to quicker staleness or that unsealed leftovers are going to dry out, etc. I found a Tupperware container of "something" in her cupboard, no lid at all. It's just been sitting in there for years. Have no idea what it was. Looked like fish flakes (fish food).

And 5 boxes of salt ... Two of them further back in the cupboard, never opened, yet bought more.

Once I get a couple of rows back in a cupboard, I just stop looking for expiry dates. I know by their position in the cupboard (and sometimes their antique labels) that they will be expired. I've started lying to mom a bit, too. If she says to me "what was that?" as I pitch it, I just say it was "X item, expired in 2016" or whatever. Sometimes it's just not worth the time looking for the actual expiry date so I just make it up.

She actually told me that her microwave needs cleaning. I opened it, and immediately gave up. Just said mom, new ones are less than $100, I'll pick one up for you. She said "you don't think you can clean it?" Um, no. It's hard to believe I have to explain to another adult that cleaning up spills immediately is easy, baking them on for a number of years makes it impossible. And honestly, why should I have to clean that up? I'm doing enough already.

4 more bags of trash out.

Mom fell in her kitchen tonight and has been taken to the hospital by ambulance. My brother is there.

He called my fwh because I didn't respond to his message on fb. Sigh, if you're not on fb, you don't get the message! Once my H clued me in, I immediately said I didn't know what to do. I'm not like most people who just jump in their car and go to the hospital because they think that's what they should do. Unfortunately (?), I'm kind of logical and analytical, and my mind immediately goes to what am I going to do there? It'll probably be hours before she's seen and they know anything. I mean, of course I should support my brother with the waiting, but really, what's the sense in 2 of us sitting there? And, that many hours together would be pretty tough to get through without wanting to address his part in the hoarder situation at her house, and I sure don't think it's the time or the place but I worry that stress might bring it out. By the time we'd get to see her, she'll probably be under the influence of pain meds and she'll be tired from everything she's going through and it will be the middle of the night.

I'm pissed at my fwh because when I said I don't know what to do, he said "a good daughter would go." Not fair! I don't think that just because I'm different from most people who would just rush there all willy-nilly that it makes me a bad daughter.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the catalyst to getting her out of that house. Honestly, I hope it is. Not that I wish my mother any harm. It's just that we all knew it was going to take something like this to pry her out of that house.

hope your mom is okay, and I think you not going to the hospital makes sense. You are in touch with your brother. It doesnt sound like a life or death thing….

Don’t take on others expectations- you are caring for your mother in all the ways they have not been doing. they can pound sand.

Hang in there. You are a GREAT daughter.

She's got much pain in the right side / hip area. Xrays are clear. They took her for a CT scan. Waiting for results.

She has had both hips replaced previously. My brother said she can move her foot, not her leg.

Both of us hoping she'll be admitted. He's saying there is no way he can get her into his truck if she is released, let alone up the few stairs into her house, and the stairs to her bedroom/bathroom. I told him to make that clear to them. He said it's not their problem, it's hers. I explained that I really didn't think they'd let her out if she can't get into her house. I have had both knees replaced in the past couple of years and I couldn't be released until I could prove to them I could do stairs.

There is a fracture. She was admitted. They don't think she'll need surgery. Just healing and physio. It's a relief for us to know she's safe for a bit anyway.

I am so sorry about this crisis with your Mom. You are right, a fall often becomes a turning point for elders' living situations to change. (Does she say how she happened to fall? I wonder if she was trying to tidy up her cupboards, as you all have been doing?)

After a stroke my father suffered at age 84, one day he decided to stand on his bed to reach a light fixture that my "caregiver" brother had equipped with a low wattage bulb, whereas Dad needed more light to see things. He took matters into his own hands, got up on his bed, lost his balance, fell backwards, hit his head on the nightstand, and put a gash in the back of his head. I was on the verge of calling for a senior wellness check with the local social services agency, as my brother was leaving him alone almost the whole day and night. But my father could be difficult!

I'm wondering if your brother was in a momentary panic about how he would help your mom navigate steps, or if he was indicating unwillingness to be her helper, longer term? It is understandable to be worried, because we lay people are not trained physical therapists! When things like this happen, it is scary to feel responsible for helping an elder, knowing just how to lift them so they don't get hurt, etc.

Our state passed a law a few years ago that hospitalized patients are not to be discharged to home care until someone can demonstrate to the hospital staff that they know how to help with activities of daily living (ADLs) and state they are willing to do what is needed. In practice, however, I'm told our local hospital often just sends people home and the family may be totally unprepared for needed changes in their routines. Unfortunately, this is what happened with our family.

Again, I'm sorry and hope you guys work this out without hassles!

SackofSorry - I just went back and reread your first post about her. It's almost as if you knew then that a fall was almost inevitable. I'm sorry that you have such a stressful relationship with your brother because it seems like now would be the perfect time to unite with him to get her out of the house for good. I'm actually having a hard time seeing how they can let her back into her house at this point if her only bathroom is upstairs. However, someone needs to make sure the social workers at the hospital KNOW all of this... everything you shared with us in your first post here.

Since they are admitting her to the hospital, I would suggest you call the nurse case manager and/or the social worker and fill in the picture for them from your perspective. I don't think you can really trust your brother to be completely truthful because then he would have to admit to his enabling behavior (all the stuff he keeps at her house) that also causes dangers for her, and that he's basically given his blessing to how she lives by not doing anything since he's the one who stops by on a daily basis to check on her.

It's not going to be pretty - you'll probably get some blowback from your mom and brother, but if you stick to the facts and let the powers that be decide where she should go next, then you've done your duty. If you don't say anything or participate in any care conferences, then it's more difficult to backtrack. You'd be amazed at how quickly after someone is admitted to the hospital that they start discharge planning, so I would take steps today.

So while it may seem against your nature to run to the hospital, some of these conversations can be easier if you're talking with someone (hospital staff) face-to-face. My bet is, if they get a full picture of what her life is currently like at home, they will only discharge her to skilled nursing facility until she can either find another place to live, or she recovers from her injury enough that the 'obstacles' of the house are not so dangerous ('dangerous' being a relative term).

Good luck.

Just a little update (although I know I tend to get wordy).

Mom is still in the hospital. They said at least 6 weeks after the fall, so it's been 3.

I've tried to get some conversations started with people at the hospital but they said there will be family consultations later, and didn't seem too interested in starting it early. However, I have been making a list of bad decisions, the bad living conditions, etc so I'm prepared. I have told a couple of the nurses that she uses humour as a mechanism to get her way or to deflect questions.

I have to track down the floor nurse at least once a week just to make sure I'm on the right page with whatever is going on since mom doesn't give me accurate information. She's getting terrible about using the correct words for things. Like when first admitted and she tells the story of the CT scan, she says "they found an incision" and I'm left guessing what the heck she is talking about. An incision? From what? You don't have any incisions! Then I finally figure out she means "fracture". She's had a catheter since being admitted since she is non-weight bearing and not up and about. She told me last night they were talking about removing her "colostomy". Mom, you don't have a colostomy, you have a catheter .... stuff like that. One time she told me the surgeon had been in, and she'd be in the hospital for another week. I talk to a a nurse and find out it's 6 weeks minimum. I don't know if she makes it up as she goes along, doesn't hear what they're saying, doesn't comprehend or just believes what she wants. BTW, English IS her first language in case anyone is wondering so it's not like there are language issues. She had a urine culture done the other day because they suspected an infection. I called her last night and asked if the culture results had come back and she said well yes, her urine is cloudy. Mom, that's not the result, that's a symptom. At the hospital today, I learned she does have an infection.

She's had diarrhea at least 3 different days in the hospital that I know of. She has diarrhea a LOT, and has for years. My own suspicion is that she has some kind of pancreas issue but I don't think she's ever been truthful enough with her own doctor to get this addressed. That said, I know she has brought it up to some degree because she has been sent for colonoscopies a couple of times. She told me today she's avoiding eating the vegetables in her meals "in case they cause the diarrhea." No logic there since she's been avoiding them AND got diarrhea 3 times not eating them. When I pointed that out, she tried to tell me it could be the water. I mean, she lives pretty close to the hospital. She said it could be different wells. Um, mom, you're both on city water. Then she said the nurse said it could be from the new antibiotic for the infection. Well, yes, I realize an antibiotic can do that, however, what about the rest of the time? So, I've been keeping the incidences of diarrhea in the hospital recorded in my list.

I did have a long talk with my sister-in-law about navigating the hospital to LTC situation since she's done it before. It doesn't sound easy. And the hospital has told me they are all about getting the patient back into their community in my initial contacts. I've looked at the homes in the area (and outside of the area) and the waiting lists are astronomical. That means we've got to try to get her moved up on the list by getting her labelled as a "crisis situation." Hence, my list. My SIL said that the hoarding would be overlooked. She works in health care, and she says it's so common that it's not something that would justify an immediate "crisis" label.

Mom is hoarding in the hospital. She asks all of us for the same things and we're all so dumb and eager to please that we all bring it. It wasn't long before she had 3 deodorants, 4 pens, 3 puzzle books, and 3 pairs of tweezers. Sigh.

On the plus side, she does go to physio on weekdays. I've gone with her a few times and I see that they have increased what they're asking of her, she is doing what is asked (at least when I'm there because I do count her reps and when she slacks off I do remind her "higher" or whatever). I suspect when I'm not there that she probably does slack off because they do get the patients going and then they go to deal with other patients. Somehow she got removed from the physio list last week, and I had to go get that straightened out, and I tried to get her to do some arm exercises in bed along with heel pumps (try to avoid blood clots), I told her she could do some over the weekend but my guess is that she did not.

I'm going over to the house tomorrow to do a little work there. I've been told it's so much easier now to do it with her out of the house. Well, sure, but I don't have a lot of time now because of visiting her at the hospital instead of working at the house.

[This message edited by SackOfSorry at 3:46 AM, Tuesday, October 15th]

(((hugs))) What a handful. You are a loving daughter.

Oh, thanks, but I don't feel like it. :-(

I'm just venting. Why do old people seem to default to stupid jokes and stories when being asked medical questions? I mean, I'm fairly sure it's a mechanism like I said in my last post. Like, another time my mom was in the hospital. As I've mentioned before, she's had both of her hips and knees replaced. When being examined, she flinched when the doctor was working with her leg, and of course he says oh, did that hurt? She says it's nothing, just her old hockey injury. Of course he says oh, you played hockey? Um, no, she did not. Never did. Just thinks she's being funny. I don't think doctors and nurses have a lot of time for patients trying to be funny.

My SIL was saying her mom did the same thing. Tried to win people over with humour and then they think she's fine. She said the doctor had been in with her mom, he was a fairly new doctor to their mom, he came out and told my SIL her mom was such a nice lady, really funny, had told him the story about the time she swam across the local dam. My SIL said ya, that's great, it never happened. It really makes you wonder how many tall tales these professionals are subjected to daily.

Oh my I was just going to post a question to see how it's going with your mom and the whole situation. I agree about the "attempting to be funny" and you know, it was a hallmark of that generation, just watch the old movies they did....especially Westerns. Minimize Minimize Minimize. It's just pretty common.

When he was 84, my father suffered a massive, right-sided parietal lobe stroke that left him completely mobile, but not able to perceive things out of his left field of vision nor put 2 and 2 together...However, that did not hinder his speech, restlessness or story telling! He was a WWII fighter pilot who truly was about to ship out to Japan on an Aircraft Carrier when the war ended. He always told us that, and then after he died, I saw that in his flight records from the Archives. So our Dad always liked to entertain us with his "hairy close calls" while he and his buddies were learning to fly at age 19.

So on his last holiday with us, he blew us away as he casually told about the time his aircraft didn't get airborne before it got to the end of the carrier deck. He dumped it in the drink, he said, then scrambled out of the cockpit, started to swim but looked up to see men on the deck pointing rifles at him! He told us they hoisted him back up and he asked them what was with the rifles, were they going to shoot him? He said they told him, "No, we were just protecting you from sharks because you might have been bleeding."

I said "Wow, Dad, you never told us THAT ONE before!" (Halfway thinking it was a big fat STORY.) He immediately replied "There's a LOT of things I never told you all." He sounded pretty sure of himself, to tell you the truth. But I doubt it happened, too!

So I will never know if he was "confabulating" stories he'd heard from his fly-boy buddies (he personally knew some highly-decorated WWII ace fighter pilots and worked with Astronaut John Glenn later on) but SERIOUSLY? I think his imagination was "talking." It happens. I asked my doctor about this by commenting "Do you ever notice there's always a kernel of truth somewhere in the crazy stories they tell?" He laughed in agreement as his mother suffered a stroke and had to give up the car keys which she resented so she told everybody that his brother had "stolen her car." Well....sort of true.

Anyways, sorry about the stress of trying to figure out her next moves. I think you are doing GREAT and I hope your brother is cleaning up his act. Good on you for documenting all these things while you have a minute.

You need tondo the following things to help facilitate getting her the appropriate discharge plan.
1. Ask for them to perform a Blessed or SLUMS survey t9 determine her cognitive abilities and then again when they are getting ready for DC they should do it again.
FYI - UTI s can definitely cause confusion. Abx can cause diarrhea because they not only kill the bad bacteria they kill good flora in the gut. Ask the hospitalist to start her on a probiotic.

2. Call your states DHSS and report her home as being unsafe and hoarding. This won't prevent her from going home but may get you some resources to help her.

3. Request family meeting with Social Workers and demand they start planning. Ask what the plan is if she ready for discharge if she is unable to walk. Will she needs a WC and ramp? Got to start planning now.

4. Catheter Ask about getting it out and using a pure whick at night but she needs to start bladder training now. In the elderly of you aren't using it you lose it quickly. So if she has had a catheter in for 2 + weeks she will most likely be incontinent when they take 9t out.

I'll just say again that we are not in the US, although I appreciate the replies.

I did forget that UTIs might cause some confusion. Mom is pretty incontinent anyway so not sure the catheter is going to worsen that unfortunate situation.

[This message edited by SackOfSorry at 4:54 AM, Wednesday, October 16th]

I think his imagination was "talking."

I think you're right. I was reading a bit about dementia and its stages last night, and it did say that some people create memories/stories to fill the gaps that they have in their memory.

Anyway, I did speak to the hospital social worker today and another person who is integral in her discharge, and I'm still getting told it's too early to figure it all out now. They've got to see where she can get to physically in rehab. It sounds like after the first 6 weeks that she'll get moved to a more intensive hospital physio rehab if she is making progress where she is now, and if they think that the more intensive one will help her further. She will have dementia testing in the hospital, and I looked up the test today. I do not foresee her passing it. Honestly, I do not see a lot of old people passing it! In fact, I think I should start studying it now for my own future - lol!

I know she will have problems with the mathematical part, I know she will have problems with the memory parts, I know she will have problems with the abstract part, and I wonder about the vocabulary part. On the surface, you'd think it's easy enough - they give the person a minute to think of all of the words that they can think of that start with a certain letter but some people just don't have great vocabularies to start with. They can't use proper names, they can't just add suffixes to words they already came up with.

I found the social worker very pleasant to chat with, and very empathetic. Both women stressed that there will be family consultation meetings to come. But she's got to get to a weight-bearing situation before things get moving.

[This message edited by SackOfSorry at 5:24 PM, Thursday, October 17th]