SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So been working on R for 2+ years since D-Day and things have been good. WH, however, recently struck up a friendship with a mutual colleague and casual friend that seems to have gotten intense. He erased their text messages and some but not all of their emails, but it is clear that they were flirting a lot and hanging out without my knowledge. In my mind, this is cheating on me, but it's murky because they didn't progress to PA. WH acknowledges the sneakiness of this behavior and that he knew he was doing wrong. I demanded he return to IC, I also restarted IC, and we'll talk about MC in a few months, but I want to get my head straight first.
Part of me feels like this is the line and we should be talking about D, part of me feels like the road to R can have a stumble and still make it. I do love him very much, but I'm worried I'm just enabling him and he'll never change.
[For context, original infidelities included PAs, EAs, and OAs; WH acknowledges motivated by the titillation of secrecy and validation he gets]

I'm really sorry you have to deal with this.

Part of me feels like this is the line and we should be talking about D, part of me feels like the road to R can have a stumble and still make it. I do love him very much, but I'm worried I'm just enabling him and he'll never change.

I understand your uncertainty, but uncertainty comes with being human.

It's easy after deciding to build boundaries to say, 'One step over the boundary, and I lower the boom.' It's much different to do it. About a year out, I thought my W had done some trickle-truth, and I was devastated because of my 'no more lies' boundary. I was facing a choice similar to yours. Luckily, it turned out that she had told me about the incidents in full, but I looked at it differently when we were a year out.

IMO, you get to - and must - choose how you respond to this. You can D now, or you can wait and gather more information. Perhaps this is a sign that your H won't change; perhaps it's a relapse into sick behavior and more work will get him healthy - 2 years isn't enough time, in most cases, for both parties to heal. It's impossible to know which at this point. It's impossible to predict the future.

Once again, you're in a sitch in which you have to choose, and you can't know the right answer. You can have confidence, though, that you can survive and thrive.

Was it a mistake or more of the same?

It was a bad CHOICE. It seems like he had been doing it for a while...then stopped. That is a GOOD sign.

Is it a setback...or a dealbreaker? Only YOU can answer that Dear Lady. I told my H on Dday that ANY lie would be a cause for D. He actually told me a STUPID lie on Dday...but I didn't find out about it until 3 months later. It was about a picture of the adultery co-conspirator. I asked him on Dday if he had any...and he showed me what he had. He then told me about how one of the pictures was one she sent him that a "friend" took. He deleted the pictures...but I retrieved them from his computer and put them on mine. I was looking at the pictures one day and saw a time stamp on the one that a "friend" had taken...and realized it was the same day that he told me about how they went to a place in Rotterdam .

I texted him from work and asked if he had taken any pictures of the adultery co-conspirator. I told him that he better be very careful with his answer. It took a while...but he eventually texted back that he did...and told me which one it was. I was LIVID when I saw he KNEW it was a lie...but still kept it up as a lie!!! I told him that lie cost him our M.

Within 15 minutes he was at our house. I was shaking so BAD...it was like another Dday...because it was . He was on his knees...BEGGING me to just give him one more chance. He explained why he lied...why he didn't want to tell the truth...and why he was coming clean. He assured me that there wasn't anything else.

I decided it was a setback...and agreed to give him another try. Only this time...I went out and bought a newer vehicle in my name only...got a checking account in my name only...with enough money to pay the bills until I could get situated in a new place...and also got a credit card in my name only. I knew I couldn't go through another Dday.

A few months after that...I thought about the Craigslist ads my H had replied to. I asked him if he ever PLACED an ad on Craigslist looking for NSA sex. He immediately told me NO. For some reason...I asked him if he was lying to me. He immediately said YES . He apologized and said that he had forgotten about writing Craigslist ads until I mentioned it. We had been doing so well...and he just instinctively fell back into that pattern of lying. Then he said that as soon as he said NO...his stomach dropped and he felt disgusted with himself. He was about to tell me it was a lie...but I asked him first...and he was going to make it right that time. Oddly...that gave me relief . My H had been a liar for a long time...but he was trying to become honest...and that TRYING was what I felt was progress.

BTW...I found out on here that Craigslist keeps an account of every ad that is placed by a person. My H didn't know about that...so he never deleted the ads from the account...only from his email. When I went into his Craigslist account...and followed the instructions from on here...I found those ads. IF my H would have stuck to his lie...it would have been the end of our M because I DID have proof.

Another thing...when I asked my H what the ads were about...he told me that he had basically written that he was a happily married man looking for NSA sex while working in that country. I didn't believe that part about him writing that he was a happily married man . But...when I found the ads...that was exactly what he had written. That built TRUST...and helped me to heal a little more .

I do love him very much, but I'm worried I'm just enabling him and he'll never change.

This is a problem all of us worry about. What does your GUT say? ALWAYS trust your GUT!! It is often said on here...ACTIONS over WORDS. But words MATTER too . It takes a while to break some habits...but with persistence it can be done. If MY H could do it...anyone can !! I gave my H mercy...and he saw it as a chance to redeem himself . I gave the same mercy to my 1st H...and he saw it as me being too weak to go anywhere. He never changed...and that is why he is my EX !!! NONE of us can tell you which step to take next because we aren't in your same shoes. But you will KNOW...your GUT won't steer you wrong .

Stop over analyzing this.

He’s a liar and cheater. Both past and present.

There are no explanations for his behavior other than he wanted to behave as a liar and cheater.

It’s up to you to decide what to do next. I suggest at least having a solid financial plan and exit strategy in place.

I’m sorry you going through this again. It’s never a mistake, it’s a willful act. What you have is more of the same.

I can understand early in R with trickle truth and exiting the fog, but over 2 years of working on it and seeing you suffer? It is a deliberate testing of your boundaries. You drew a line and he crossed it, now what?

[This message edited by Tanner at 5:13 PM, Wednesday, December 21st]

An EA is an A. Every A could have been worse. I think you are almost self minimizing this A because "They never took it physical". But that was probably a matter of time, not intent, and not something he recognized, stopped himself then brought to you.

You've had another DDay, so take a second to recover again before you make a decision to attempt to R again or D.

Affairs are abuse. If he physically abused you before and you decided to reconcile, then 2 years later he hit you again, would you stay? This is no different. Some (most) people don't change.

For years in my marriage there were loopholes or excuses that could be used to try and justify a "mistake" or minimize what had happened. Phrases like "He is just a friend" or "He is like a brother" or even "But we didn't have sex" all could be used to try and avoid the path to D.

It took me until our last Dday about 11 years ago for me to finally work through and verbalize to my WS, "My core need in marriage is to be loved and respected" along with "If you want to figure out whether something is right or wrong for our marriage, ask yourself whether I'd feel loved and respected."

It is clear to me is that your WH has, once again, demonstrated to you that he chooses not to treat you with love and respect. I'd tell him that you expect nothing less than love and respect and without it, there can't be a marriage. Then (largely) ignore his words and watch his actions.

Does he choose to go to IC? Does he choose to see that he is chasing validation and it indicates that he is broken? Does he work hard in IC and in his own time to figure out why he is broken and how to change?

Or does he try to lovebomb you for a while? Say he is sorry? Do the minimum level of IC he thinks that you'll accept?

If he does the minimum, he regrets getting caught and isn't really changing. If he does a ton of work AND keeps at it for a long time (e.g. potentially years) AND finds that he needs to have some level of "maintenance" to change his old patterns, then he might actually be a candidate for reconciliation.

I know that it's hard to hear, but from the little you have posted, you ARE minimizing his behavior. Honesty is paramount after infidelity, and it is not being applied. There is no ambiguity in his secrecy.

Part of me feels like this is the line and we should be talking about D, part of me feels like the road to R can have a stumble and still make it.

In my opinion, the second part of the quote can not happen without the first part being a realistic option. Do you think that he even has a chance to make wholesale changes is he believes you leaving isn't a real possibility? It shouldn't be THE reason that he wants to change, but maybe it can be a catalyst for him to want to make changes.

So far, he has shown you who he is--he has been unfaithful FAR longer than being faithful....including right up to this episode. You can call it a 'stumble', but a better definition might be that he is still making the same cheating decisions that he has for years. The 'stumble' was the small time of good behavior until he started up the old habits.

Can he be a safe partner? Maybe. He has to decide that. But more importantly, where are YOUR boundaries in all of this? What are you willing to accept? That is your decision alone to make.