SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi,
I think I’m having such a hard time getting out of my recent spiral because my intuition is telling g me I’m still being lied to. My IC agrees that I probably am, and then reminds me that I chose to reconcile and need to work on letting the truth go.

Have any of you done this successfully?

Right now I’m dwelling on the denial that they ever exchanged gifts. Besides sex toys - he did admit to that. But seriously? You’re fucking someone for four years who wants to be your wife and either she didn’t try to persuade you with sweet gifts or you don’t try to placate her with gifts? Come on, who believes that? Seriously- does that sound believable???

This is a tough one.

After months and months of non stop questioning, there are certain ‘small’ details that I thibj he’s probably lying about that I have decided to let go. I know basically what happened, what they did, what happened before and after, etc, the ‘important’ stuff.

The things I’ve decided to let go are things that I feel like he’s lying about not to protect himself, but to protect my feelings, and also maybe because he’s a little embarrassed/ashamed. He’s been honest about what they did and all that (as far as I’m aware) but the smaller details, which I guess I don’t need to know really because why does it matter? They did what they did and that’s that really.

However, my situation is obviously different, and I think maybe in your case, it might annoy me if he lied about something like that.

Do you feel like he’s lied about anything else? Would it change your decision about what to do if you found out he was lying about giving/receiving gifts? I think it would bother me wondering if they had gifts from each other that they were holding on to, is that what your concern is?

I guess I weigh it up on whether to let something go or not by how much it matters to my decision on whether to try to reconcile or separate. Obviously lying overall is not a good decision on a WS part so they should be honest about everything. But I do think sometimes it’s embarrassment about their decisions/actions and not wanting to hurt our feelings more maybe.

I’m not as experienced as some others here though because I’m only like seven months out from DDay. Usually when I’m on a spiral or get focused on one particular thing like this, it does get to me for weeks and sometimes I feel like I just need to keep having that conversation until I’m satisfied I have the truth or decide it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things and isn’t worth my time/energy.

I don't buy it.

I exchange gifts with my friends and even acquaintances (say once a year) depending on relation/occasion.

No way he didn't buy her anything or receive anything as a gift.

It's possible he never got her any extravagant or memorable gifts, but nothing is super hard to believe.

It's possible he never got her any extravagant or memorable gifts, but nothing is super hard to believe.

I think This0is0Fine nailed it here. WH told me he never gave/received gifts. I never really believed this however, as time went on, to me it came down as what defines a gift.

I believe that they did not give any extravagant, memorable or even noteworthy gifts - can't have something mysteriously showing up at home that might lead to questions ya know...

BUT I do believe they may have done "insignificant" things. Show up at the hotel with favorite Starbucks order or food/drink treat. OR make sure a favorite shower gel, lotion, etc. was readily available in the hotel bathroom. OR just take each other to a favorite restaurant/club/area or something while on those out of town get aways. These things could be argued on if they really counted as a "gift" but I suppose that depends on what side of the infidelity fence you are on. Now, years out, I just assume these "insignificant" things happen and don't waste my time/effort/energy on the word salad of it all.

You guys are so smart.

I think this comes down to me trusting my intuition. I questioned if he was cheating because my intuition was telling me he was, but I fell for his lies and didn’t trust myself for years. I thought the gift thing is something tangible that I could test my intuition on - but yes, maybe it’s word salad. This is exactly what I meant - I don’t care if you just brought her favorite snack from the free cafe at work - if it was for her to make her happy then yes, that’s a gift. And I don’t believe for a second that they didn’t try to do this for each other, even if their motivations were different (hers to keep him, his to placate her- right like so I even believe that?)
I don’t think it would make a difference about ending the marriage, but maybe in the future it would be part of the bigger picture? And without that information then how can I make a good decision? And mostly, I want to know because I am testing my intuition.
Oxox you guys are the best

It’s also about how honest is he going to be with you and what your requirements are for R.
This may be minor stuff, but is he willing to be honest?

I don’t think the issue is the gifts.

It’s the fact you believe he’s lying. (BTW I think he is lying too). A multi year affair and no birthday gift? Come on - you weren’t born yesterday.

Here’s my situation and I hope it helps you.

The OW told me my H stayed at her apartment. I remember he had a business trip. Apparently he came home a day or two earlier than he told me and he was with her. I checked the tickets etc and it added up - he was with her. Now my H swears he didn’t stay at her apartment - he got a hotel.

I know he’s lying to cover himself b/c I think he believes I will or would have D him over it. Refuses to admit it to this day and I’m Never going to believe it.

I have no proof he got a hotel. Neither does he.

Not sure why he chooses to lie about that but it’s the one thing that does not add up. I chose to accept his lie b/c everything else he did after Dday was to take accountability and show true remorse. In 11 years since Dday I have not had to question him about anything.

Not sure why your H would lie about the gifts but maybe in his mind he thinks it would ruin more things for you. As if a multi year affair doesn’t ruin almost everything.

I will never understand cheater logic.

As others have said.....

Christmas and birthdays....there would have been something. I had a 3 month A and her birthday was in that and I felt almost compelled to do something....even though by that point I was planning an escape.

I think 4 years is a little mad to believe nothing was exchanged...even a letter is a gift or a card ffs...I got her a chocolate orange bar and she got me some chocolate back and whilst it id all low level stuff the sentiment is still there. Yeah I never bought her Jewellery or underwear etc the stuff many people may consider you get during an A but still it's the thought isnt it!

Good luck.

Funny thing is , this is still one thing in my gut screaming at me too… my H swears no gifts but like others have said, ordering her favorite beer and having it ready at the bar before she arrived.. was a gift. It’s the thought that counts.

I don’t think I’ll quiet this thought for a while because what I consider important or meaningful he has came to the conclusion it wasn’t. I’m sure if I asked him did he surprise her with a beer? With her favorite energy drink? I’m sure he would tell me yes. I just don’t care enough about it. I know why he did it and he knows why he did it and it’s disgusting to both of us now.

If he took her on a trip, if he bought her an outfit for the bedroom, things that were more pricey and took more thoughtfulness and he lied about it , I don’t know if I can forgive that. Not sure if that makes sense. I did find out he bought her a t shirt from our anniversary weekend when we went to a music festival and I carried it around all night and she got him one at the concert she went to that weekend … how freaking cute but that’s “love” .

I carried it around all night not knowing it was for her. That almost made me walk.

Surprisingly this was one of the last details to come out , he lied to me for months even lied to me over admitting he did cocaine… like others have said the cheaters logic makes no sense. I’m assuming he didn’t want to admit it because he lied to himself so much he actually believed it….
ETA
I think it also makes it hard for me to believe because I try to put logic behind it. I try to think about things he’s done for me and I really deep down think she wasn’t too bright and didn’t have standards (clearly) my H swears she was ok with the cheap red roof in hotel and sex in the woods , to me that is not believable because I wouldn’t do that. Not all people require gifts , sometimes the bar is low and honestly her bar had to have been in hell for her to tolerate sleeping with a married man and being told “I’ll contact you , don’t contact me” she actually listened.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 2:58 AM, Thursday, October 10th]

My IC agrees that I probably am, and then reminds me that I chose to reconcile and need to work on letting the truth go.

Depending on the subtlety of what you IC was saying here, this is either horrible advice or sage. Forgive me for not giving random IC’s the benefit of the doubt based of my experiences with them.

If what she meant is you need to accept that you will never get every last detail of the A written down like a Tolstoy novel, then absolutely, totally correct.

BUT, if she is saying that because you chose to attempt to R that you need to accept obvious lies and ignore your screaming gut, that is atrocious advice. By choosing to not immediately D and try R, you are not committed to anything. You can stop R at any time, for any reason, and move on with your life. Having your bull shit meter flashing red in response to a wildly improbable answer is not something to just do a "suck it up, buttercup". You deserve peace. Being coerced to accept bullshit by a professional because you chose to try grace is awful and will not lead you to peace. Don’t stand for that.

Word salad or Lying by omission.

I would struggle with this as my husband chose to lie by omission.

In the early days I wouldn’t ask ‘Have you spoken to her?’ I would ask ‘have you had any form of communication with her? Verbal, written, electronic, semaphore or via carrier pigeon?’ He would object. I would remind him he struggled to recognise lying by omission is still lying.

So be very clear with how you ask. You shouldn’t have to be. If he admits ‘yes he took her a cupcake but that’s not really a gift’ you know you have a man who lies by omission. He thinks it wasn’t a gold necklace so it’s not ‘technically’ a gift. It wasn’t technically sex just oral. That text is not technically cheating ‘just smoke up my arse’. It’s how they defend their poor choices.

Lying to stop feeling shame, to protect you (that’s nonsense by the way - he’s protecting himself from you leaving him) or whatever other nonsense cheaters say - is still a lie.

Lying to protect somebody's feelings is still lying especially during reconciliation. A husband flew back into town early, went to a hotel and what, paid cash? I call BS. Why lie at this point? His wife already knows that he stayed at the AP's house because the AP told her.

I don't think I would get hung up on whether or not they exchanged gifts but everyone has their topics that are important