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I apologize for not taking my comments above one step further. I totally agree with Chaos and with other responders.

Whether one can control one's feelings or not, one definitely can choose how to resolve the feelings. Limerence does not excuse or justify betrayal.

*****

I don't see limerence as pathological. It's normal for some people. It may seem pathological for BSes because a lot of infidelity seems to come from it. IMO, the pathology isn't the limerence. Rather, it's the inability or unwillingness to control one's response to limerence.

Both W2b and I were unattached when we got together. She has always been pretty shy, and she wasn't the best looking girl I knew. I fell for her before we had exchanged much more than our names, majors, and reasons for taking the course we were in. If I hadn't fallen for her - if she hadn't become my limerent object - I don't see how we would have gotten together.

Limerence has one thing in common with infidelity - if you haven't experienced it, you probably can't understand it without a goodly amount of empathy. Watch The Blue Angel and imagine you are the professorunable to extricate yourself from his relationship with Dietrich.

I used to lose a little respect for people who 'fell in love' until it happened to me. I didn't see The Blue Angel until I was in my 30s, but I feared I was like the the professor. Limerence is very powerful.

I hated the limerent experience, too, until it worked for us. The obsession and the fantasies were so foreign to me, but they were impossible to stop. But as we got to know each other over after-class coffee, we found we liked and loved each other. My limerence got us started. W2b's insistence on being real with each other allowed us to find the positive bonds that could sustain a marriage. The day it became clear where we were headed was a joyful one for both of us. (I rue the fact that I don't remember the date that happened or the date I fell for her.)

*****

I've read a number of statements on SI that 'it was a limerent affair,' as if that makes the A less dangerous. In fact, a limerent A is more dangerous to an M, IMO, because limerence is so hard to defeat.

*****

I can get infatuation. I personally experienced this first time I saw my wife. Met her in passing at a coffee-shop, had a five-word small-talk chat and was instantly intrigued by her. It made me frequent that shop for lunch over the next weeks until I saw her again and asked her out. But frankly – in it’s base-terms that’s a comparable reaction to when I might frequent a certain part of a river because I think there is a big brown trout there.

Have you mentioned this to your wife?

Don't get me wrong - sometimes a bike ride is my top priority. Luckily my W understands.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:59 PM, Friday, October 17th]

Hiking --

Limerance is more like a destructive chase of winning validation, and feeling you are nothing if you can’t get it. It has little to do with the other person, there is no authenticity or vulnerability. It’s nothing like healthy love.

My wife really did learn the same lesson -- and it speaks volumes of her childhood. A bit of a travesty when someone grows up in a house without feeling safe or dealing with alcoholic parents. My sister-in-law was pregnant and out of high school at age 16, just to escape that same family home.

My wife was certain it was love during the A, she only saw it for what it was years later, after she decided to tell me about what had happened.

A destructive chase for validation, that solidly hits the proverbial nail on the head.

My childhood had some horrifying similarities, I really think that's how my wife and I found each other to start with.

However we eventually find it, healthy love is pretty cool.

I'd say I can't control to whom I'm physically attracted.

My anatomy placement, though? 100 percent control. Flirtation, conversation? Control level: total. My presence at clandestine meetups? Dictatorship.

[This message edited by Mindjob at 4:55 AM, Tuesday, October 21st]

"You can’t control who you fall in love with"

has been used a lot lately in pop culture to romanticize infidelity and if this was to hold true we’d all be constantly falling in and out of love with every novel attraction encounter. It’s ironic to romanticize or idealize something that runs absolutely counter to romance. By romanticizing your inability to regulate your emotions and base impulses, you’re devaluing truer more holistic, higher ordered love, and as Bigger mentioned, your humanity, your ability to rise above primal instincts.

There’s studies out there somewhere that looked at limerence through Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging and PET scans. The brain of someone experiencing Limerence is impressively "lit-up", and very similar to those under the influence of methamphetamines. There’s specific patterns of brain activity, particularly in areas related to reward and addiction. There’s huge surges of neurochemicals such as Dopamine and Serotonin. There’s areas of the brain that are physiologically deactivated during Limerence involving the prefrontal cortex which handles rational judgment and critical thinking that can cause one to idealize the object of their attraction. There’s "Serotonin Dips" which causes anxiety and obsessive thoughts.

Most self aware well adjusted individuals can self regulate this, but certain predisposed individuals suffering from an array of mental disorders, not so much.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:24 PM, Saturday, October 25th]

Most self aware well adjusted individuals can self regulate this, but certain predisposed individuals suffering from an array of mental disorders, not so much.

Ah. A Microsoftian statement, techinically correct. It seems to be definitive, but it leaves out the well-adjusted people who are limerent, and it doesn't say much about the possibility that limerence is a disorder that hits well-adjusted people out of the blue.

I'd say I can't control to whom I'm physically attracted.

My anatomy placement, though? 100 percent control. Flirtation, conversation? Control level: total. My presence at clandestine meetups?

It would be great if people realized that before entering committed relationships.

*****

IMO, it's necessary to accept that some people are limerent - that is, subject to a virtually irresistible and unreciprocated attachment to some other people that can be observed but can't be explained.

At the same time, no BS is obliged to excuse limerence. Actually, from what I understand about limerence, being subject to limerence seems harder than a supposed 'need' for external validation to cure.

Ah. A Microsoftian statement, techinically correct. It seems to be definitive, but it leaves out the well-adjusted people who are limerent, and it doesn't say much about the possibility that limerence is a disorder that hits well-adjusted people out of the blue.

I theorize that we all experience degrees, or the initial stages of limerence, but those with certain predispositions have a difficult time regulating these emotions and instead of shutting them down, when they should, they indulge them. They allow these emotions to evolve and continue to progressively titillate.

Although infidelity is not a classified addiction, it sure seems to have a lot of similarities.

**Not looking to excuse cheating with a ICD-10 Code and usually avoid making definitive statements regarding infidelity and the complex human condition. Just an interesting observation.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 4:59 AM, Sunday, October 26th]

Has anyone else had the experience where the value you place on feeling in love dropped precipitously after your spouse’s affair? I still place a high value on healthy love and partnership, but I find that I no longer care very much about the collection of feelings that go along with limerence/infatuation/falling in love. Those feelings just seem like haphazard brain chemistry to me—potentially fun to feel and hooray if it works out, but also misleading/risky and not super meaningful.

...haphazard brain chemistry...

Haphazard??? It took evolution BILLIONS of years to create the right brain chemistry to thoroughly fuck up otherwise sane and rational people. Have a little respect. Jezz!

[This message edited by Unhinged at 4:02 AM, Monday, October 27th]

Has anyone else had the experience where the value you place on feeling in love dropped precipitously after your spouse’s affair?

Right now (approaching 3 years since dday1), I seriously side-eye "in love" feelings, rom-coms, sappy romantic statements, gestures etc. I give those feelings about the same level of credit as drunk-dialed messages. I can't fathom feeling "in love" again, much less *wanting* to feel that way. Maybe I have more healing to do, or maybe my eyes have been opened to the cultural brain-washing that we've all received from romance stories.

Has anyone else had the experience where the value you place on feeling in love dropped precipitously after your spouse’s affair?

Yes, I’m MUCH more pragmatic now. I have an iron clad prenup protecting the $1200.00 in my checking account, my 25 year old car and the 10 years service time I have left in my inflation and divorce depreciated pension after working 25 years, and THIS marriage license has to be renewed every two years.

Winning…

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 8:09 AM, Monday, October 27th]

I’m not sure if I’m reading your sarcasm correctly, RB, but for me, the decrease in how much I value feelings of being in love isn’t connected to financial pragmatism (though my husband’s affair did make me take some steps toward potential financial independence that were healthy and needed). What I value most is still a cluster of the intangible, experiential, and relational aspects of life. It’s just that feelings of being in love aren’t a significant part of that cluster anymore.