SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This, for sure. Not saying to be rude or aggressive or anything, but there's no need to tip-toe around and spare her feelings. She sure didn't spare yours, and if she's serious about wanting to R she'll play ball. If she doesn't, then that might just be foreshadowing future problems down the road.

I'll second this. I tiptoed for a while, then flat out wrote him a list. Neither got me what I needed, and it definitely foreshadowed future problems. Sometimes I wonder if R would've gone better if I'd laid out my terms right at the start, but ultimately I've concluded that's just me trying to feel in control and that R failed mostly because of his (lack of) actions.

It came to a head last night. I was zoned out with stuff going through my head again and she could tell so she asked what was wrong. I figured this can't wait anymore and I can't feel like this anymore. The whole thing was a discussion and matter of fact. Nothing was argumentive or high emotions from either of us. I was quite blunt like a couple of you suggested. Through the whole thing I was ready to tell her to pack her stuff and start staying at her mom's if the conversation went that way which it did not. It was nerve racking to get it started but as it went on, it felt like a big relief.

I told her I feel like I'm a second choice and I'm done living like that. I told her that I'm not a consolation prize and I deserve someone that actually loves me, someone that would never do something like that to me, someone that will actually give me reassurance when I need it, someone that wants me and makes be feel wanted, someone that will actually bring up issues they are having and talk to me about it instead of go out and cheat on me.

I told her I love her more than anything and I want it to be her. That if I didn't, I wouldn't still be here. But I said I can't live in this limbo anymore. Then went through how it is a limbo for me.

She wasn't defensive, but said she feels like she has been putting in effort and it goes unnoticed and feels like what she's doing isn't enough because I end up needing more.

I told her what she's doing is NOT enough and I DO need more. I told her it hasn't gone unnoticed and that I do appreciate what she has been doing and gave her the examples but that I DO need more. I brought up how I've told her like 4 times now over the months with 2 being recently (Friday and yesterday morning), exactly what I need, what to say, when to say it, what to do, how to comfort me, how to reassure me, and she's done exactly NONE of it. I told her that every time I bring up my needs, she responds that she has been putting in effort and it's not noticed like it's to try and put it back on me to feel bad. Every time I have brought up my needs, it's like I end up getting less and an almost cold shoulder at times that I need it most.

I told her I NEED her to do these things. Not that "it would feel nice if you did this sometimes" but that I absolutely NEED these things to feel loved again and to move forward. She responded well to this like she understands and would.

I told her I CANNOT keep getting this trickle truth. I brought up how every time we have a big discussion I get a little more truth on things that didn't add up and I've been right on every time. I told her now that I have new answers regarding the bruise pictures, it's brought up things that again do not quite add up or feel right. I told her I do not believe they didn't have sex and I told her I feel that she feels justified and entitled to what happened. I told her I don't feel that she has accepted full responsibility of what she has done to me. She calmly said they that they did not have sex. I told her I want to believe her but I can't because every step of the way she has lied to me until the next big talk where something new comes out. She responded well to this too saying she gets it.

Biggers advice here popped in my head and I went with it. I told her I don't think I am going to be able to move forward until I have the full truth. I told her the only way I will be able to get peace is if she does the polygraph. I told her if she passes then I'll be able to believe her and we can move forward from there but that if she fails or it is inconclusive it will tell me she is still being dishonest and does not trust me with the truth. Either way it would give me an answer I NEED. I told her that I believe we can get through anything but the full truth needs to be out there first. I've already gotten over many of the things that were initially bothering me because I got the verifiable truth.

She responded well I think. She didn't hesitate and asked me what the logistics of getting it done are, assuming that I already had it planned out which I don't fully. I told her I would get it set up.

I told her I need a full timeline of events written out. That she must go FULL no contact. No asking why she hasn't seen him in court lately, no talking about him, no saying hi when they are in proximity. I told her I need to know when they happened to be in the same hearings together. She agreed. I told her I need UNPROMPTED affection, reassurance, love, attention. I brought up that one of the things I asked for early on after finding out was an apology and that I have received exactly NOTHING that was unprompted. The only "sorrys" I have received have been after something new came out and those weren't apologies. She brought up that she beats herself up every day over this. She feels like a bad wife and bad mother. I told her then to say it out loud to me, to overdo it, overdo the affection, reassurance, and apologies. I told her like Pogre told his wife, she is not a bad person, but what she did to me was extremely bad and I did not deserve that. She says she has a hard time being the bad guy. I told her again she is not a bad person but that she IS the bad guy in this and needs to accept that.

I told her I need her to follow through with IC, to follow through with getting her health checked out, to follow though with homework when we get it, to read things, to do things to improve herself, to work on getting to the bottom of why she did this. True effort that I can see. She agreed she would.

That was pretty much the gist of it. No one was mad or upset. She came over to my side of the bed later and told me she has been sad for a long time and that she took her sad and did to me this terrible thing that I did not deserve. She brought up she is worried that this will be used against her forever. I told her that it wouldn't and I've given her a road map of what I need and how we can get through this together. I told her it will never go away but it will get better over time once I feel the full truth is out there and she is doing her part of what I need consistently.

I told her that I want to get back to knowing what the real her is thinking and feeling and that I don't feel I currently know what the real her is thinking and feeling. She says she doesn't know what the real her is thinking and feeling anymore either. I told her that if she is already done and is just stringing me along that it is ok to tell me. That way we can get on with our lives. I asked her if she still wanted to be married to me. She took longer to answer than I would have liked, which is concerning, but she ended up saying yes she did. I asked her if she is willing to put in the hard work it's gonna take to fix this and she said yes. I told her I am willing to be patient with her, support her, and help her figure out the sad she has, but at the same time, I NEED her to do the things I said above FIRST.

She said she loved me and I told her I loved her too. I also said it doesn't always have to feel good and she agreed. I told her love isn't "euphoria" (this was her answer to what she thought love means a couple months ago), it's a choice, commitment, and actions over time. She agreed with me. I don't know if this is technically true but it's what I said.

We'll see if it lasts, but this morning she feels like a different person to me and has clearly at least started on what I told her I need. I'm hoping like in Woodthrush's situation, my wife's true remorse is something that still comes even though it's taking awhile.

[This message edited by TrashPanda7 at 3:08 PM, Monday, December 22nd]

It was nerve racking to get it started but as it went on, it felt like a big relief.

You just have to get over that first uncomfortable hurdle, then it gets easier and now you feel more heard, or at least you got it out and laid it on the table. I think you did a good job with the conversation as you described it. You were open, frank, and honest about how you feel and where your head's at, and you did a great job of articulating it. Her vocalizing that she understands instead of becoming overly defensive and deflecting is a positive.

You're still fairly early into this process and there are still seemingly some pretty big question marks, but the fact that you guys can have a conversation like this without it becoming combative or argumentative is also positive. At least she's open to hearing you out and says she understands/doesn't blame you for how you feel right now. You should give yourself a pat on the back for getting all of that out in a constructive way. You might not be out of the woods yet, but at least you're trying to find a way to clear a path.

I wouldn't back burner the polygraph. She may be telling the truth, but she also said she understands why you (justifiably) have doubts and appears to be on board with going through with it. We'll see how that cooperative attitude holds up as you get closer to actually getting it done. I'm pulling for you and I hope she passes with flying colors. If she doesn't, well... either way you'll at least have a foundation based on facts to work from.

What really got through to my wife were the books "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair," "Not Just Friends," and related articles. I shared some of the pinned posts and articles from here with her, too. We got both of the books on Audible and listened to them together. I'm finding out that a lot of WS really severely underestimate the emotional and psychological impact an affair can have on a person and a marriage. The more she read the more she saw many of the same things being repeated in different articles. That's when it really hit her that she made a monumental fuckup and true remorse started coming to the surface. While listening to the books on Audible there were a couple of times things were touched on that hit close to home, and she just looked at me and apologized with tears in her eyes.

My wife is a little different from most. She's had epilepsy her entire life and she's wired a little differently from most people. Sometimes she needs things explained in more detail that most of us take for granted. To be fair tho, before this was thrust into my lap I had a different perspective on it as well. Infidelity is far more destructive and far reaching than I'd realized.

[This message edited by Pogre at 3:42 PM, Monday, December 22nd]

I've had her read the first book, but haven't asked for her to read not just friends yet but probably will. I'll probably listen to it as well.

I was the same way, didn't really pay too much attention to infidelity or think much of it. Now I have no tolerance for it.

You had a good conversation there!! One thing, she said she does not like being bad guy or wrong or something like that. Don't miss this point. She needs to learn that it is OK to be wrong. She did great evil. She needs to learn to accept that, but at same time realize she is precious and able to be loved.

This is very important for everything surrounding her healing and change. She needs to stop this mindset of not being able to accept negativity about herself. It really is OK to be wrong....in the big picture I mean. This was something I had to work hard on with my wife.

One way I did that was through extensive illustrative examples. I especially did the thing where I told a fictional story of me doing something to her. She had to drop into it with her imagination, but it would work.

I repeat ...she MUST STOP self protecting and realize you will still love her. She still has worth. She just did some terrible things. She needs to learn and change.

Ask the Lord to help you...He is of infinite wisdom.

This is a turning point for you!

That’s what it feels like to start regaining your self respect and dignity.

Don’t ever forget how you felt afterwards. And don’t back down.

I told my wife that until I can believe that whatever was missing or broken inside her has been found or fixed I will not put my heart back into this relationship because until all of this happens you are not a safe partner for me

She was dead set against MC when I asked for it years ago but I demanded it when we met two days after I asked her to pack a bag and leave. I said we are going or we're done. I hadn't found this forum yet so I didn't know that I should have focused on IC for me and demanded IC for her.

I did start with IC and gently demanded that she do the same. She did, reluctantly, and has been going for about 18 months on a weekly basis and now she is dealing with stuff that happened in her childhood that was pretty horrible and was never processed. I've had a couple of people tell me that this childhood trauma can explain why she did what she did but I am not convinced.

After you get over that first hurdle of being totally/brutally honest with what you want and what you need and drawing boundaries it gets much easier to have subsequent conversations

People say infidelity does not make somebody a bad person, a bad wife, a bad parent. I disagree with that. I think it does make them a partially bad person. The one person who, no matter what, you are supposed to be able to turn to for support or when you are hurt has now become the person who caused a pain that is beyond description. And that is something that can never be undone.

It definitely changed me in some ways for the better but in other ways I've become cynical and jaded. I used to love doing those little things that would make her smile, those little surprises to let her know I was thinking about her but I don't do that nearly as often anymore because it just doesn't feel as good to me to do it

Looking back over the decades I did too much and she was more than happy to take everything and give little in return

Good point WoodThrush. I believe that pretty accurately describes my wife Right now. I think I will talk with her about that.

I literally got on my knees this weekend, and said "okay God... I'm done... I give up... Do what you're gonna do with me." I asked him to help me see the truth, to help me become a better person, and to show me what he is calling me to do.

Thank you for the support OhItsYou.

[Quote]I've had a couple of people tell me that this childhood trauma can explain why she did what she did but I am not convinced.

This is one of those sort of things. Childhood experiences can help explain why someone thinks and behaves the way they do as an adult. It doesn't excuse them from it, though.