SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Psychology Today reported in February 2022 that the American Psychological Assoc. research found that only 44% of women who have cheated are still married.

I doubt that this information will be that helpful to Yellowdoxie, but the odds certainly are better that 1 out of 11.

[This message edited by 40YOSL at 5:54 AM, Friday, March 6th]

How did the talk/intervention go?

I get it that a lot of the information on this site sounds harsh...
I think that when dealing with infidelity there is very little leeway to give ground on some basic requirements. It’s then a question where the answer can vary situation-by-situation, what’s the best way to get those requirements met.
In some instances, it might require a hard stance, in some maybe a softer stance. The key-issue is IMHO the final outcome.

As an example: As a cop I had to place lot’s of people in lockup. I doubt a single one wanted to spend the next 24 hours in a cell. I could be calm, patient, work with them (within the scope I could) and walk them into the cell, or I could drag them by force and slam the door on them. Basically the same result, but in once scenario the end-goal is reached with minimal risk and effort, in the other it’s brute force. End result the same.

The minimal requirements I would have wanted to see after the "talk" would be that:
Total accountability and openness.
Total accountability moving forwards.
Total NC with OM – including a new gym.
A NC letter to OM.

"44% of women who have cheated are still married"

A cheating wife might stay married for many reasons.

Children, finances, lifestyle, reputation, religion, fear, etc., etc.

But; love?

Perhaps a cheating wife stays in the marriage for love as seldom as 1 out of 11 (9%).

What’s your source, FPP?

Edie,

For the 44%?

I was responding to 40YOSL’s post, a couple above.

Going to get wordy here. I took statistics in college. I can tell you right now using statistics for anything, especially cheating, is useless. Pay no attention to Tolstoy. People make decisions about their marriages for a blue zillion different reasons. Sometimes it’s financial. Sometimes it’s genuine love and forgiveness. Sometimes it’s for the children. It could be 1000 reasons why someone sticks around. Here’s the thing about statistics… I live in the southern part of the United States and my state has several planting time zones. However, the capital is in the middle of the state and that’s where all the news comes from. Every time on TV they talk about the weather they give statistics. They might say our state has 60 inches of rain a year. That makes no sense to a farmer because the farm is the entity that needs the water. The person owning a store in a town 100 miles away cares less about the farmer’s rain. Do they have enough in their town to supply the product they’re selling. Statistics are simple or complicated but you can lie with them as easy as you can breathe. It depends on how the question is ask. How happy are you is a stupid question but it gets ask. In the United States, we were born knowing our rights and one of them we think we have is not written in the constitution. It’s the right to happiness. The problem is we’ve taken it on as a law so that we will jettison wives and husbands and children. We will gamble. We might even steal because it makes us happy. So my suggestion is to lay off the statistics because the two humans in a relationship are not like any other two humans on the planet, nor is their marriage.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 3:38 PM, Saturday, March 7th]

Thank you so much to all of you who took time out to give me advice. To be honest, everything was so overwhelming that I just needed some time to not even look and just process.

Where I've landed is that I need to be the leader for my family right now. Especially my son. I had obviously no time to prepare for this so I'm doing the very best that I can. My wife has told me that she still loves me, is in love with me and that I am literally the perfect husband and father. She just told me that she is having thoughts in her mind like a hurricane where she is unsure of marriage. She said she is going to counseling to try to figure out what caused her to do this. She also told me that she completely cut off contact with the other guy. I'm not sure if I can 100% believe her, which hurts me to say, but is reality at this point. I do believe that she is being honest with what she tells me, and gives me bits and pieces here and there as she's ready.

I have decided that I am going to try to make it work with her. I told her that if she is 100% willing to work on our marriage then so am I. She told me that she needs some space and time to think. She is not an overly emotional person and holds many things in to begin with, so it is going to probably be a slow process. I am going to privately work on my trauma and grief and anger and sadness and try to be there for her and my son as we work through this. I have started therapy.

I don't know what the end is going to look like, it is incredibly scary, and I'm still not 100% sure what to think about everything, but that's where I'm at at the moment. Again, thank you to every single one of you who tried to give words of encouragement and advice. They mean more to me right now than I can possibly explain.

Again with the time and space. I don’t think she’s quite figured out who the injured party is here.

Has she been looking into recovery resources? Books like How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by MacDonald and Not Just Friends by Glass should already be on her nightstand.

Has she offered transparency? All devices and accounts with passwords and tracking?

Has she written a timeline of her affair? You have a right to know what you’re being asked to forgive.

Has the other betrayed spouse been informed?

YD....What your wife knows and has figured out is that you're the best option for now. Probably the best financial option and stability. It didn't work out with him. Women who are in "love" don't cheat. We just....don't.
I'm not saying this to hurt you, I'm saying this to warn you. This will come up again because she's looking for a better opportunity. That is my honest opinion. Don't invest too much in this woman, emotionally or otherwise. Play your cards close to your vest and keep an eye on her. I think she's completely full of shit and this is gonna happen again. The things she's saying do not jump with reality, IMO.

What I would do at this point...I'm trying to put myself in your shoes as a man, it might be somewhat different for the sexes, but I would STILL CONTEMPLATE DIVORCE. You should talk to a lawyer and find out what the optimum would be for divorce for you. You have some time now because it didn't work out with the other guy so who knows how long it might take to replace him. I would work with a lawyer to craft the best situation for yourself and your son and how you can be in the best position financially and with custody. I would also keep an eye on her behavior - DO NOT SAY ANYTHING TO HER because you don't want to give her any warning. My guess is she's gonna act real sweet like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth because this thing failed. If she's a good looking woman as you say, she'll try again. SPRUCE yourself up so you have better opportunities if comes down to that.

This, to me, is not a real recon, because she's telling you a lot of bullshit, IMO. Like how she's in love with you. No she's not. You don't cheat on a man you're in love with. How she doesn't know if she wants to be married. Danger, danger, Will Robinson. Of course she knows this....she just wonders if she can find a better option. You don't cheat for example because you want to change careers. You cheat because you want to change MEN.

Don't trust this woman, I wouldn't. Keep your eyes open, monitor the phone, the computer, her schedules, but don't say a word, just document if anything happens. You either want to live with an honest woman you can trust....or you live with this one. I don't know how you can ever really trust her again, I wouldn't but that's something you have to decide. BUT DON'T BE SURPRISED AGAIN. She's full of shit.

Also.....you talk about how scary it is. It's disturbing, it's upsetting, it's detabilizing. But it doesn't have to be scary. She's not all that, there are 50 more like her if you could swing a cat in the area, but I think you don't have much confidence. You have to build this up. You have to start thinking of yourself as a hot property and make it so. Don't think she's all that, she's not. She's full of shit. Don't be scared of losing this one - it's like losing a painful rash. You can and will find another woman who would be better, yes, indeed. She's not the only and not even the best woman you could come across, you just lack confidence and belief in yourself and you make far too much of her and she's not worth it. As for your son, divorce is hard, but life is hard. Life sucks much of the time, but it strengthens us and we get through it. Don't bother with her, focus on your son and making memories and experiences WITH HIM. If you do get divorced, as I expect you will at some point, he'll be fine. He really will be because he has a great dad who loves him more than anything else in the world. And that Dad deserves to feel happy, safe, secure, loved and respected. Do you feel any of those things NOW?

Crushed

I’m going to be a bit hard on you...
It’s all fine and romantic and noble to fall on your own sword to save your son from the misery of divorce. Only... you aren’t saving him from anything other than possibly witnessing a loveless and trustless marriage.

But... some, like me, haven’t presented divorce as your only option. What we have suggested is that YOU decide to NOT remain in infidelity.
It’s a big difference. It’s simply saying "this is not acceptable, I am going to a better place, and what I can get is what determines how I reach it".

Now – that might lead to divorce... or it might lead to reconciliation.
But... it’s based on YOU starting that journey – with or without her.
She tells you she isn’t sure about marriage and the future... That’s a bit like debating whether to pull the cord or not after parajumping off the plane. It’s too late. Either married or not, pregnant or not, monogamous or not...

Tell her – fine. You take all the time you need to decide what YOU want. I know what I want, and that is a) a monogamous marriage and b) not to share my wife.
Let her know that you are setting off out of infidelity. For some relatively short period of time she can tell you that she too wants out of infidelity AND this marriage, but that the further you go on your path the more you accept the inevitable, and the less inclined you will be to work on this marriage.

What this does is put the onus of committing to the marriage on her, rather than make you wait for her response.

BTW- Her response after you told her that YOU were willing to work 100% on the marriage if she did too – that response about needing time.... Does that sound like she too is giving it 100%?

She also told me that she completely cut off contact with the other guy. I'm not sure if I can 100% believe her,

Understandable. If your WW wants to restore trust she could grant you complete and total access to her phone and computer, including all social media and email accounts, and install tracking software on your phones. Total transparency with all things. I know it sounds a bit draconian, but if she's willing to do this it's a step in the right direction and a positive sign that she's willing to do whatever it takes to reconcile.

I am going to privately work on my trauma and grief and anger and sadness and try to be there for her and my son as we work through this.

Working on your recovery is a good thing, of course. Being there for your son is equally important. As for your WW, her issues are hers to deal with all on her own. It's time for her to put on her girl girl pants and take responsibility for herself and the consequences of her decisions and actions. If she can own and fix her shit, reconciliation might be possible.

Generally speaking, the bulk of the work in R falls squarely on the shoulders of the wayward spouse.

I believe that infidelity is self-destructive. We, the betrayed, are collateral damage. The first step towards reconciliation is the wayward taking full and complete responsibility for the affair, being as open and honest as possible, and doing everything they can to address whatever personal issues lead them down Infidelity Lane.

I don't know what the end is going to look like,

Brother, none of us ever do. I'm going to tell you something that you probably don't want to read.

Reconciliation is never a forgone conclusion. No matter how desperately you may want reconciliation to succeed, it is beyond your control. There is absolutely nothing you can do to encourage or force your WW to own and fix her shit. The best that you can do is to focus on you, your recovery and healing, and let go of the outcome. IOW, you can hope for the best while preparing for the worst.

I encourage every BS in R to get as comfortable as possible with divorce. Consult with a lawyer, even if only to educate yourself on your rights and where you stand legally. Carefully examine the financial implications of how a D would play out. Have a plan in place. Be prepared.

Some wayward spouses are willing and able to do what it takes to reconcile a marriage devastated by infidelity. Unfortunately, some are not. That's the simple reality of the situation.

Peace, friend.

So you want to reconcile, or try to at least. Fine, no trouble with that decision even if it's a little early perhaps. So let's start there and mention a few things:

Her words of affirmation toward you sound good and are a positive start.

Going to counseling to figure out her thoughts, feelings and it sounds like... temptations is good too. However, this one comes with a big caution. NOT ALL COUNSELORS are created equal. Not in skill and not in outlook. Get someone experienced with infidelity and with trying to help people both find out why they cheated and how to remedy it so they can repair the marriage. You don't want a counselor who will help her "find herself' and advocate non monogamous relationship or any of those paths.

She needs to understand how dopamine lures people into temptation and acts like a powerful drug. It creates fantasies where people feel dissatisfied with what they have and desire for others. This is important because it sounds like she is questioning marriage despite saying she loves you. That's a dangerous space if you want to R. Here is where reading the right books and a skilled counselor with infidelity experience can help her see through these issues. You might consider this forum on the wayward side for her because there are former waywards here who are amazing in helping people see these dynamics for what they are, an illusion based usually upon some mixture of need for validation and dopamine fueled behavior.

Get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and maybe another book recommended here at SI. That way she can read solid work on infidelity and not some BS that will confuse her more.... there is a lot of BS out on the internet that will not help.

Does she have friends who were aware of the A and encouraging her? Those relationships are not safe for your marriage. She needs the opposite, a friend who will tell her to take her head out of her ass and repair the marriage. Those people are worth their weight in gold right now.

Just because you have decided to try to reconcile does not mean it is ok to do the pick me dance. It will work against you. It is ok to be pissed, hurt, devastated, frustrated etc. It is ok for her to see all those things and realize she created them. Does she realize how you feel? Does she know the marriage is hanging by a thread even if you want to try to R? She needs to understand what she did and the impact, asap, and your remarks don't quite show us she gets that yet. It appears that you may be doing the pick me dance to some degree. You haven't given much data for us to digest but any betrayed spouse who decides for R right away is usually doing it at least a little bit I think.

She should not be going to the same gym anymore. If she is, she will be in contact. I think she was head over heels for this guy. 1800 texts, sex... yeah she is on a dopamine high almost certainly and you need lots of cold water to help her out of it. No contact gets promised often but broken almost as often. Have you put your foot down on this? You need to. She needs to know you wont share your wife and this is where seeing a D lawyer even though you want R may help you quite a bit. She needs time because she is head over heels and doesn't understand how she could be when she loves you. All steps should be taken PROACTIVELY to end the affair. Dont think it is enough to give her space so she can figure it out. Sure, she may need space but she needs to understand you are not chasing her. You're married, not pursuing her. The other guy is pursuing her, If contact continues then you are still in infidelity.

Is the AP married or does he have a gf? If so, you should tell the other woman. It will pour the cold light of day on the affair and take away the fantasy. It almost always helps to end the affair.

You love her and want to stay married. The best way to have a chance for her to want the same thing is for you to be firm, get out of infidelity and take most of the great steps being offered by the collective wisdom here at SI. They will help you avoid the pick me dance, which helps her out of her dopamine fueled fantasy. Be assertive. Be strong. Contend with the idea that you may have to D even though you want R and let her know that everything is potentially on the table. And it largely depends on her actions from here on out.

I'm hoping that you could give us some additional information which will help us help you.

Can you tell us whether your wife works full or part-time or is a stay-at-home mom?

You mentioned that she had requested a meeting with her parents being present. Were they actually present at the meeting and are they fully aware that she is having an affair? You mentioned that she talked to another member of the gym. Can you tell us how many other people are aware of her affair?

You mentioned the 1800 texts, were you able to download and save copies of those? Were you able to read through them all?

Is she still going to the same gym?

I do believe that she is being honest with what she tells me...

That is a BIG mistake. I'm sorry but at this point you should not trust ANYTHING she tells you unless you can actually verify it. You need to look at her ACTIONS because you cannot and should not trust her words . Also, speaking of her words, you need to acquire at least one voice activated recorder and have it on you whenever she is around. This will allow you to review things she has said to you and be of help if she denies saying something or changes her story.

My wife has told me that she still loves me, is in love with me and that I am literally the perfect husband and father.

It's a favorable sign that she is saying this however her ACTIONS do not align with that statement.

I'm very sorry that you are going through this nightmare. My post will be short. Don't give her an infinite amount of time to wiggle. Tell her that you give her 4-6 weeks to make up her mind if she wants to be all in in this marriage, in the mean time start divorce preparations and prepare yourself mentally. If she isn't all in after the period, pull the trigger. You can always stop the divorce, but you will be much better prepared and will send a clear signal, that you won't tolerate being taken advantage of.