SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I asked her to write out a timeline to what went on and she agreed but told me it would be very vague about was what she claims

PLEASE do NOT accept this!!! Tell her if she’s unwilling to be specific as to what she did, then she’s screaming to your face she’s unwilling to be truthful with you. You have GOT to stand firm and go straight to the divorce attorney and get the process started. Your only hope of getting the full truth, which is an ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT for any kind of CHANCE at eventual reconciliation, is to demand full transparency and ACCEPT NOTHING LESS.

Also, as others have said, your therapist is *garbage* if they dismissed your concerns and simply said get over it. Demand your money back from that one!

Nothing changes in your marriage or relationship unless YOU (the betrayed spouse) changes.

The cheater counts on " knowing" how you will react. They figure as long as they can manipulate and lie and have the betrayed spouse believe it, all is good. At least for the cheaters.

But when the betrayed pushes back or makes demands or refuses to continue to be a doormat, that is when the cheater often "doesn’t remember things" or blames the betrayed spouse etc.

At dday2 my CH believed he was going to sweet talk me into " dropping it" after a few days. Ha!

When I started executing plan B, tossed him out and planned to D, he was completely blindsided. Just like I was 6 months prior when he admitted cheating and was planning to kick me to the curb.

Read up on the hard 180. Be prepared to take that action if needed. And honestly, her finding a new job should be a top priority IMO.

She did write out the time line it is very vague it basically said how he came in the health center then looked her up sent her a message on LinkedIn then told her he was busy to just text him so that’s how numbers got exchanged. Claims they only seen each other a few times in passing and always with others around never alone. Then they texted here and there talked only twice on the phone that one I can confirm the pictures sent was a selfie or two and a cooler with fish nothing nude or inappropriate and the conversations were never inappropriate that was about it. I do know she is currently talking to her therapist and I know she is telling her how I want her to take a polygraph test and I’m sure this woman will try to talk her out of it.

I do know she is currently talking to her therapist and I know she is telling her how I want her to take a polygraph test and I’m sure this woman will try to talk her out of it.

So what? Make it a non-negotiable and be ready to back it up with consequences. You have to be in the drivers seat sir. Shes squirming because she knows none of this is passing the fidelity sniff test. If theres nothing to hide, it (the poly) shouldnt be an issue, right?

Its a showdown of wills right now and her "therapist" better not be given the power to call the shots or you will lose the power to call her actions into question and that is no way to be.

Shes gonna push it to the edge in the hopes that you drop the matter and allow her to rug sweep everything. Dont do it.

Again I ask the big picture question, is this really the way you want to live moving forward?

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:30 AM, Tuesday, December 23rd]

Her birthday is Christmas Day so I’m not trying to start anything before it I am scheduling the test but can’t be done until the 10th of next month so I’m going to wait to bring it up again until after her birthday. I know she is struggling with turning 40 and I think that also has a lot to do with what is going on at the moment. I overheard a bit of her talking to her therapist last night and I definitely know she said something about the test but couldn’t hear the response and I find it odd that after her session when we went to bed she wants to cuddle but I don’t know anything anymore.

I think relationships can survive nearly anything – as long as both partners are clear on what it is they are surviving from.
Maybe you are "lucky" in that you caught an early-stage emotional affair. It’s not possible to quantify pain or damage from infidelity, but I guess we can assume discovering it early – and assuming no intimacy has taken place – would make possible reconciliation "easier" than having a d-day had this progressed to full-on sex.

What I can tell you is that if there is any major factor left out of her story – then that factor will possibly prevent you two from ever having a good marriage. I put immense importance on marriage, and frankly I would never want to be in anything other than a potentially good and always getting better marriage...

We see this all the time here. Stories where a spouse has had suspicions for years and/or learns of a long-past and long-over affair. Just as devastating as stories of those that are discovering active ongoing affairs.
I can more-or-less guarantee that it would be better for you to be told NOW that they got intimate in the infirmary, rather than discover a year from now that they briefly kissed.

We often talk about the loss of trust on d-day, and one of the biggest hurdles facing us betrayed spouses is how to reestablish trust. What is often overlooked is that by withholding the information we need, the wayward spouse is showing US that they don’t trust us with the truth – basically a lack of trust. Now imagine a marriage where neither trusts each other...

To rephrase what I already said: Learning about full-on sex NOW would cause less damage than believing nothing happened, and then learning about a kiss some months from now. What that discovery does is tear off whatever scab of recovery might have been forming. It removes the traces of reestablished trust and makes you seriously question if it can ever be rebuilt.

I understand your questioning about how they met. I’m guessing refineries have a high male employee ratio, and she sees several clients per day, thereby probably a majority male. Why did this one get this close to her? Why did he get her number, versus her work-phone (I’m assuming he got her mobile). Does she offer her number to others she tends to at work or was this an exception? Why did she want to talk to HIM? Did she realize or understand that it might be inappropriate? Was this out of work hours? Did he have an exceptional medical issue that warranted this added interest?

I’m not one of those that think a woman can’t have male friends or colleagues. About half my coworkers are female, including the two I work the most with. We are friends, have an amicable relationship, often eat lunch together, travel together and all that. Yet there is no romance, flirting or anything of that nature. Your wife could work in an all-male environment and get hit on a dozen times a day, but with the correct attitude just cast it off like rain off a duck...

I think the important message you need to get across is this:
More than NEARLY anything you want to reconcile. You want to have the BEST marriage possible.
But you have realized a some things:
One is that if she is having an affair, then you have already lost her. She is totally free to choose OM, flirt with the workers or whatever. But not as your wife. Accepting that the marriage is over is the lesser of two evils for you. If this is what she wants then it’s better that the two of you accept it and move on separately. You are willing to commit to as amicable a divorce as possible, if she chooses her infidelity over the marriage.

The second is that your foundation for trust shattered on d-day. You fully understand that marriage can’t be built without trust, and you question how you are supposed to regain that trust. You can’t even trust her swearing on your children’s lives, because she also swore to be yours at one point. Make it clear this isn’t what you want – you do not want to not trust her. It’s just what it is. You need a base to rebuild the trust from.

The other thing you have realized is that reconciliation is going to be hard. To make it slightly easier you are offering her a temporary amnesty to be totally 100% truthful about what happened. Make it very clear that NOW is the time to be absolutely 100% truthful and no matter what she might share, you are willing to commit to reconciliation. If she were to tell you NOW that they kissed, had sex or shared intimate information then that would be something you could deal with. If however you were to learn something a month from now, that would set you back to d-day, and you aren’t certain you would be able to deal with that.
Not only that, but by not being 100% honest she would be telling you very clearly that SHE didn’t trust you. That would be devastating.

Then tell her that a polygraph would be to both your advantage. If she is truthful then she will pass, and if she passes it shows you in a logical and sensible way that she is being honest. That in turn places the onus of rebuilding trust on you because the poly says she’s honest.

Finally – Your drinking is an issue. Not to justify her affair. But it does impact relationships. Take your sobriety seriously.

Nothing in that vagueness masquerading as a timeline explains why she was wearing thongs to work.

If you choose to close the book with a sparse and implausible story and move into R with a willful blindness, you will never find peace. There are scores of people who come back here after a decade or more reporting that D-day still feels fresh. Don’t be one of those tragedies.

I’ll also chime in on Ink’s take about swearing on your children’s lives. My now Ex, is currently destroying her relationship with our youngest son because she can’t be honest with him or help him to understand what happened.

On a side note concerning the trust issues, my Ex turned me into quite the astute detective (no offense Bigger, I’m no true detective), but I really learned to dig into the deepest cracks for info. Didn’t really like what I found. I almost, not quite, but damn close, used her Apple ID password to restore the last couple years history of texts (since she left her phone in iCloud backup mode). I stopped short of that because I was pretty sure what I’d find would cause me more destruction. You could, and this would be a bluff of sorts, tell her that you’ve done the same thing and recovered all of her texts from the last couple years and simply ask her "what do you think I saw". If she calls your bluff, it could do more damage, but if she’s been lying, continuing to lie would destroy her narrative. It’s a pretty serious step to take, and when I considered it I was very close to DDay. I’m actually glad I never did it. I’m at peace now because I no longer live with a manipulative liar. I’m so sorry you find yourself in this situation. If ever there was a hell on earth, being the recipient of infidelity would certainly be it.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 3:18 PM, Tuesday, December 23rd]

I did try to do the restore thing but she didn’t have it set to back up messages calls or photos so would show nothing probably why she was so willing to let me look and try

Did you try a software package like ‘dr. Fone’ ?

It can restore txts that have been deleted even from the deleted items, it all depends on what the phone has overwritten since the initial deletion.

Lets start with the bad. She's still lying to you. She didn't detach from you after starting working there because they spent their time talking about work. She was at the least deeply intrigued about her co-worker and their texts were exploring that option. That's the best case. You also don't go through the effort to delete texts about nothing. The worse case is they had plenty of time and access to get serious. I'd assume it was physical unless you have proof otherwise

She did write out the time line it is very vague it basically said how he came in the health center then looked her up sent her a message on LinkedIn then told her he was busy to just text him so that’s how numbers got exchanged. Claims they only seen each other a few times in passing and always with others around never alone. Then they texted here and there talked only twice on the phone that one I can confirm the pictures sent was a selfie or two and a cooler with fish nothing nude or inappropriate and the conversations were never inappropriate that was about it.

The bad part about that is vague leaves deniable plausibility. The good part is her timeline has no physical contact. That is very testable. What's not as testable is whether she was interested in a relationship with her co-worker which I believe she was. Interested enough to risk blowing up her family. It does allow her to discount how much effort she put into this relationship. Like she was texting good morning and night and having lunch together a few times.

I paid for a site to look up the phone number she called the night we had an argument and in hindsight wish I’d have waited to confront her about it either way she had already cleared all evidence. The guy isn’t married but in a relationship with a woman who he has been with for 10 years according to her because I reached out to her and told her what was going on hoping for more information but got none.

You would think that finding out these things would have her excluding him as an option going forward. I wouldn't be 100% assured by this. Waywards get better at hiding information as they learn. Them still working together means any bonds they created are still being fed. Someone willing to risk blowing up their families for a fling, usually aren't great at thinking things through. Even if this did scare her off from co-worker, shes still the person that at least seriously entertained the thought of having an affair.

When I first found out I asked her to leave and she won’t apparently I can’t force her to she says if she leaves I will use abandonment against her for the kids as I don’t feel I should leave either the house was built in my name in my credit on my pay as she was part time and the big one I was always faithful

This and her insistence on remaining working there are signs her remorse is surface deep at best. She's more worried about the consequences than how she could have entertained the thought of doing something that would blow up her family's lives.

[This message edited by grubs at 6:35 PM, Tuesday, December 23rd]

I have not tried that but it’s been two months now I doubt I’ll find anything from what I’ve seen online the deleted stuff has been wrote over by now

I only get three questions for the polygraph obviously I want to know if she did anything physical but id like to also know if she sent nude pictures or inappropriate text I just am unsure if that qualifies as two separate questions because I’d like to know if she still loves me and wants to save our marriage but that could be two also

I only get three questions for the polygraph obviously I want to know if she did anything physical but id like to also know if she sent nude pictures or inappropriate text I just am unsure if that qualifies as two separate questions because I’d like to know if she still loves me and wants to save our marriage but that could be two also

Questions about feelings and about whether she sent inappropriate texts are not objective yes/no questions therefore they won't work well on polygraphs. You are questioning her opinion on something. Polygraphs work well on true/false factual questions that require little interpretation. You need to refine your questions with the assistance of the examiner.

One of the three should be if her timeline was complete and accurate, though hers being vague weakens that.

One of them should be have you have had sexual contact (defined as touching of genitals, oral, sex) with another person since we've been together. That would cover most physical affairs and isn't something she can sidestep easily. This has the benefit of outing any unknown previous affair.

The nude pix question could also work because that's a y/n. Though she might consider a sexy shot where she didn't have clothes on but didn't show anything not technically nude even though most would disagree. I'd also not limit that to the instance you know about.

The inappropriate text gives her too much leeway to excuse what you would consider as inappropriate to being harmless banter.

The does she love you gives her a lot of leeway from kind of sort of loves you, loves you as a friend, or head of heals do anything love you. Same concept with wants to save marriage. Spread from do anything to kind of sorta but only if it's not too much trouble. Both of those feelings are also subject to change at various times.

[This message edited by grubs at 10:08 PM, Tuesday, December 23rd]

It’s 3-4 questions per polygraph appointment. Say later on you come up with a few more fact based questions, you can go back and do those.

Tell her you are taking her phone to have the messages forensically restored and that you spoke with them and received a guarantee that it would be successful. The look on her face or her response will tell you exactly what was in there.

I find it odd that after her session when we went to bed she wants to cuddle but I don’t know anything anymore.

Look up "love bombing". Probability is high that whats going on. The incongruity is pretty stark. Here you are in the middle of huge and painful angst over her betrayal and shes trying to just move on and veneer the whole thing with some physical affection, ignoring the rampaging elephant in tbe room. Pretty cynical imo.

Do you have a guest room? Might I suggest you use it to sleep apart from her for the time being?

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 2:02 PM, Wednesday, December 24th]

WH,

Write all your questions in a document. Write all her answers in the same document. Give the document a name (WW’s Confession).

Tell her the polygraph will only have one question: "Were all of her answers in WW’s Confession true, accurate and complete?"

I don’t know if this is the way it really works, but neither will she.

Best wishes.

Maybe I'm just callous but the fact that her birthday is on Christmas Day wouldn't change a damn thing for me. Stop caring about what will make her happy or sad, do what you need to do to be happy to feel safe to feel secure to feel respected Etc

I would bring it up today that you have scheduled the test for January 10th and leave it at that.

The vague details are a deception and manipulation. She knows what they said to each other but she doesn't want to tell you for obvious reasons. Tell the polygrapher that two of the questions you want asked is do you remember what you said to him and did you exchange any other pictures that you have not confessed to.

As someone else stated above, this is a battle of the wills Showdown. She is banking on you letting it go and moving on and sweeping it under the rug and the only way you can correct this is to make it clear that you are willing to divorce over this

Jumping to love bombing because someone wanted to cuddle after a therapy session is a little extreme, no? Lots of married people still desire physical affection even in the wake of infidelity.