SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Due to the collective wisdom here at SI, I have begun to establish a new way of viewing sexual infidelity as it pertains to my wife and myself.

My rethink all started when I was challenged by fellow members as to why, after so many decades, am I still struggling so deeply with my wife’s affair. At 1st, my being "called onto the carpet" for not being over this was offensive. Their questions felt more like I was having "the carpet pulled out from under me", than being supportive or helpful. That all said, I could feel an inkling of an underlying padding of truth in their query. I didn’t necessarily like the question but then again, I didn’t come here to like anything. I came here to gain new perspectives that might assist me in healing that I had come to believe would be an unfortunate, unescapable, lifetime process. In other words, a lifetime prison sentence for a crime I did not commit.

After some pushing back on my part, I decided to lower my defensiveness, sit quietly, letting go of my fixed stances, and listen with inquisitiveness. Though a struggle at times, I decided to view their enquiry, not as a challenge or inquisition, but as fair and reasonable questions. To accomplish this, I needed to be honest with myself and admit that for over ½ a year of writing here I have maintained that my wife and I have for years, post D-day, been in a loving, caring, faithful relationship. Whether I liked it or not, their confusion and subsequent questions were not only understandable but were packed with insight.

What I have begun to understand is that I have been using the words "wayward" and "betrayed" as nouns instead of verbs. And I am not the only one. For instance, here at SI, there is a forum section called "Wayward Side". And the 1st two lines state:

"A forum for all Former WS's who have ended or trying to end their affairs and are striving to reconcile. BS's are not to start threads asking questions of the WS's."

In other words, changing both the act of betrayal and being betrayed from being verbs into being nouns.

To give credence to my thoughts I turn to two neutral parties – Word and AI. If one types the words "waywards" and "betrayeds" into word it shows them as a misspell. If one asks AI it corrects your search into betrayals. As smart as AI is, it doesn’t understand the words "Betrayeds" and "Waywards". So it appears to me, that they are made-up nouns, I am sure to simplify communication but with a downside of turning a past event into a current persona.

I am beginning to understand that both words were meant to be verbs describing an action of what someone did, not a noun describing who someone is. This new understanding has me questioning, is a person what they do or is it that a person can do things they are not?

Please understand, I have no interest in being critical of anything or anyone’s journey. It is perfectly clear in my head that this site and those here have been incredibly helpful in my healing process. However, I am beginning to understand that the difficulty in my healing process is that I was keeping the event current by concluding that my wife is a wayward (noun), rather than she lost her way (verb) and that I am a betrayed (noun), instead of I am a man who has experienced betrayal (verb). Keeping attached the idea of waywards and betrayeds as nouns gave infidelity permanence whereas viewing them as a verbs has granted me the ability to view her infidelity as a past event which allows for its impermanence.

At 1st this idea of changing these words from nouns back into verbs seemed a little bit like a trickster’s sleight of hand. And yet, though I did not fully understand this seemingly small change of wording, I found myself wondering if I was allowing my extended suffering to shroud me from an important truth.

I have spent many hours in quiet thought/meditation trying to understand the difference and vital importance of verbs versus nouns. Please know I am not stating anything as fact. I am sharing my growing position for other’s consideration only. Also, I am not stating this idea as a truth that is applicable in every situation. My only reason to write this post is to share a seemingly unimportant change in perspective that is offering me a long-overdue space for softness and quietness as I accept my journey through infidelity as (verb) not as a destination (noun).

Asterisk

You raise a fascinating point that is, at its core, a philosophical one: Is 'cheater' a temporary state or a permanent identity?

Is someone only a cheater while they are actively cheating, or does the act define them indefinitely? While there may be no objective answer, I find clarity by applying the same logic to other labels. For instance, we consider a murderer to be anyone who has committed a murder—that 'stain' remains regardless of whether they ever kill again. In my view, some actions are so significant that they become a permanent part of a person's history. Others will certainly disagree, but that’s my perspective."

All models are wrong. Some are useful.

If you find a new way of understanding your circumstances that brings peace and healing to your spirit, that sounds tremendously useful to me. It’s scary how subtle shifts like this can keep us trapped indefinitely, but hopeful that their discovery can bring relief, even after decades. Best wishes, good sir.

At the end of the day, how ever you interpret YOUR situation and what descriptors YOU use are up to you.

One thing about SI is that it is VERY acronym-centric. Lots of "shorthand" involved too. You almost have to have a "secret decoder ring" to understand what’s actually being said when you newly join. Some descriptors are also used to "soften the language" somewhat ("wayward" vs "cheater" or even "unfaithful"). I think largely the development of "wayward" and "betrayed" is due to that "shorthand" as opposed to any effort to turn verbs into nouns. It’s really just leaving the "spouse, wife or husband" part off after the descriptor. The example you gave from the "Wayward side" doesn’t even mention the terms you are having issue with:

"A forum for all Former WS's who have ended or trying to end their affairs and are striving to reconcile. BS's are not to start threads asking questions of the WS's."

It has the acronyms for "wayward spouse" and "betrayed spouse". AI can CERTAINLY figure out THOSE terms for you.

One thing I find interesting in this statement is the use of "former" in front of "WS" but NOT "BS". Often you see "FWS" but not "FBS". If you search the abbreviations, you can find FWW, FWS, and FWH. No FBS and such. Hmmm…..can you be an "ex cheater" but you are "cheated on for life"? Rings somewhat true with the way I feel.

I tend not to get wrapped up in the labels and acronyms and such. Actions are the most important thing to me.

[This message edited by ImaChump at 4:23 PM, Thursday, December 18th]

LOVE THIS...thank you for sharing !!! I often write that it is all about perspective. When I first started on here I would write "WH" to describe my H. Then I wrote a post about how he earned the "F" in front of "WH" . A few years later...I took all of them off...and said he is my H...and that is how I see him...no F or W in the front...just H !

It is also why I don't use "AP" to write about adultery co-conspirators. I REFUSE to see them as any kind of "partners". A sweet BW (I use this word to describe them on here for reference only) used the phrase "adultery co-conspirator" and that FIT my perspective...so that is what I use .

You have been thoughtful in your feelings and did your research about this and I applaud your conclusion Dear Sir ! What happened...happened. There is NOTHING that can be done to change that. But moving forward has MANY paths. There is no right or wrong path after an A...which is why we each have to navigate our own path forward. You and your wife seem to have chosen a healthy path for your M . I really LIKE that insight too...and appreciate you sharing this !!

Healing requires a lot of self examination.

It’s natural a new member may come here trying to figure out how to control the "external"problems the are facing.

Over time you watch people realize the only control we have is over ourselves.

Thats why deciding what you want versus what you will accept versus aligning with that position is a super big challenge because you have to inspect the micro-aspects of your thoughts sometimes to start pulling the strings of what has you bound.

Add to that a big majority of members here only recently learned they have been betrayed and so you have the new trauma, new losses, and the grieving process that no matter how you try to push it aside, the only way is through.

As for the words, whatever helps you to align with your ultimate goals and brings you peace is going to be a win. I still examine my thoughts and how the hold me back from living my best life all the time. Now that I see how useful being mindful of the way I think is towards my development I value my quiet time and adjust my sails as I go.

We all experience our share of pain in this life. For those in this site infidelity is one of them. There is opportunity for growth no matter what the source of the turmoil is, and I appreciate the way you have been vulnerable and open to that process. And I think you will find your way to peace through the methods you are utilizing.

I don’t label myself either way anymore. I am a human being who has done a lot of good, and I am a human being who has created damage. I aspire to be a human moving forward who leaves people in a better place than I found them. For this site it’s simply a way to sort out which issues you might be dealing with.

And for whatever it’s worth, I do not consider myself wayward anymore as I have been found by the grace of God and the exact kind of work you are doing for yourself! I hope peace continues to creep in so you can enjoy your life more fully!!!

PS In addition to introspection I have found being constant in a gratitude practice has not only allowed me to have more capacity for joy but has changed a lot about my mindset. There is a lot of science behind those practices.

Hey Asterisk —

When I first arrived here, I jumped in and tried to utilize all of the unique shorthand elements of the forum.

So, I was indeed a BS and my wife a WS as I moved forward — trying to figure out whether the M would have a chance or not.

Somewhere along the way, I think I reached a similar conclusion to your thread title here and I ditched the labels.

I think it may have been around year two or three, and I only ever reference my wife as just that.

Since then, I have gone a bit farther on my own philosophy, in that I don’t define myself by my worst moments, and I’ll not do that with anyone else either.

I am the sum of all my good choices, horrible choices and those good ones I made along the way.

Same with my wife.

Ultimately, you are finding the definitions you need, or learning if any of them are actually needed.

I think most of us all doing the best we can with the information we have in the moment.

I didn’t necessarily like the question but then again, I didn’t come here to like anything. I came here to gain new perspectives that might assist me in healing that I had come to believe would be an unfortunate, unescapable, lifetime process.

Same here. And I really needed the great variety of perspectives here to help me find my path.

As to the lifetime process — a lot of things fall in to that category (from working on myself, to parenting, the M, and all the other relationships in my life).

No pressure to heal in a hurry, we all heal at our own pace, hopefully you’re finding your pace on your way to feeling better.

Nice post, *

Dr. S

labels

To the extent that we can drop the creating and using of labels. I think it’s a super positive thing. Just saying "they did this" or "they did that" is the way to be. Doesn’t mean that someone who committed murder shouldn’t go to jail, or you shouldn’t divorce a wife who cheated on you, just that labels take incredibly complex human beings and distill them to a couple of syllables word. That can’t help but leave a ton of truth on the table.

Sometimes, dear sir, you make my head spin.

Nouns, verbs, past, present, labels and whatnot, are all used to help us navigate through the same shit, crap, poop...

IIRC, your very first post here was about all of the asterisks in your life. Are you done with the asterisks?

I come at this from the viewpoint of my career of 33 years.

I studied the mind, with language as the primary focus.

Asterisk points out a very important aspect of language and thought that does have effects on our state of mind.

There is a general rule my colleagues have: "You think about what you talk about, and you talk about the things you think about."

The next rule is: "The language you use to think about a thing shapes your approach and reaction to it."

So the words you choose to formulate your thoughts affects how you view them, emotionally, socially, philosophically, etc.

If you look at a simple example, you will see that we do recognize this fact in our daily lives. Take the example of a five year old child who stole cookies from a cookie jar. When confronted, the adult is aware that we don’t say, "You are a bad person!" Instead, we say, "That was not a good thing to do." The simple change in language focuses on the behavior of the child, not his character. That change is an important distinction.

So changing the framing of the idea "I am a betrayed spouse" into "I am a woman who has experienced betrayal" is very different.

Our brains process these messages very distinctly. They are not the same, and our brains parse the language differently - in terms of the pragmatic function, the semantic content, and as well as the syntactic structure.

HOW you think about something and the language you use to think about it are as important as the thought itself.

Thank you for sharing this perspective. I find it (unfortunately as I wish we did not all need to be here) fascinating and very helpful. Words and intentional use of words are very important to me and I think this will really help me as I am still having so much trouble even though we are nearing 3 years post DD.

I have to say that at first I avoided this thread because I feared the title was provoking but I am so glad I read it and the title was simply exactly what it is lol.

I saw something today that reminded me of this thread:

Joshua 2: "Rahab, the prostitute"

Matthew 1: "Rahab, the grandmother of the Messiah"

You are not stuck in your worst moment. You are one act of faith away from a rewritten story.

ABSOLUTELY !

The words describe action, and the action is abhorrent. When trust is violated, when that violation is thoughtless, and cruel, then it redefines the person that committed that violation. As a betrayed spouse, my ex-wife is permanently defined as a cheater, because not all actions are equal, and that label is justice to me.

Drsoolers,

For instance, we consider a murderer to be anyone who has committed a murder—that 'stain' remains regardless of whether they ever kill again.

I see your point; I guess one can argue that permanent labeling is based on the degree of the wrongdoing, the number of times of the wrongdoing and the personal choice by the wronged individual for its application. Some others might claim that if done once that is enough to always be "that person". To me, the downside of this argument is that I’d be willing to wager that we are all then permanent liars, cheaters, thieves and ….

For me, and this is only me, I don’t put infidelity into the same class as I might a murderer
Asterisk

InkHulk,

It’s scary how subtle shifts like this can keep us trapped indefinitely,

It really is, my friend. The shift in my thinking, from the outside, is "subtle" and yet in my insides, "major". Thanks for the best wishes.

Asterisk

I’maChump,

Yes, I was speaking for me, and for me only. I did state that in my original post. As I mentioned in the post I was offering this as not a "truth" or "the way" only as a consideration.

As to my comment about the wayward forum. I stand partially corrected. Thank you for pointing out my error in the quoted two lines. You are correct. But as to the title, I stand by what I said and the point I was making. It is written as a noun not as a verb and I maintain that that difference is extremely important. At least to me.

Asterisk

Want2BGappyAgain,

As I have said in the past, all of your smiley, grinning faces make me smile.

When I first started on here I would write "WH" to describe my H. Then I wrote a post about how he earned the "F" in front of "WH" . A few years later...I took all of them off...and said he is my H...and that is how I see him...no F or W in the front...just H !

What a lovely and powerful transformation. Your husband is a lucky man.

I had noticed in a different reply your use of the words adultery co-conspirators. I’ll be honest, it felt harsh. Though very true those words caused me to cringe a little bit. Now that I have read your explanation, I fully support the idea of not using "partner" for it can give the impression of elevating the relationship into some type of importance. Thanks for sharing that information and it supports my contention that "words" matter.

Asterisk

Hikingout,

As for the words, whatever helps you to align with your ultimate goals and brings you peace is going to be a win. I still examine my thoughts and how the hold me back from living my best life all the time. Now that I see how useful being mindful of the way I think is towards my development I value my quiet time and adjust my sails as I go.

I love this paragraph. Especially the "I value my quiet time and adjust my sails as I go." It expresses so clearly what I wasn’t doing. I kept myself adrift with thoughts of the unfairness of it all and trying to figure out all the whys, which doing so makes sense in the beginning stages but at some point, far sooner than it took me, acceptance has to play into the equation. That might mean accept and stay or accept and leave but either way, as Want2BHappyAgain stated, "What happened…happened. There is Nothing that can be done to change that."

And for whatever it’s worth, I do not consider myself wayward anymore

And I will say, without hesitation, that you claiming your success in healing and moving beyond the status/stigma of a "wayward", is healthy and necessary for reconciliation!

Asterisk

P.S. you may not know it but you have played a large role in my rethinking and processing. Thanks!

Oldwounds,

Since then, I have gone a bit farther on my own philosophy, in that I don’t define myself by my worst moments, and I’ll not do that with anyone else either. I am the sum of all my good choices, horrible choices and those good ones I made along the way.
Same with my wife.

Perfectly stated! Where were you 3 decades ago. 😊

Asterisk

HouseOfPlane,

I think it’s a super positive thing. Just saying "they did this" or "they did that" is the way to be. Doesn’t mean that someone who committed murder shouldn’t go to jail, or you shouldn’t divorce a wife who cheated on you, just that labels take incredibly complex human beings and distill them to a couple of syllables word.

I got myself caught up in the rumination loop, that just wouldn’t let me see the complexity of the human condition. I was zero in on rightness verses wrongness of her infidelity. Adding to my difficulties in finding resolve, my mind kept reaffirming that this should not have happened to me, I was a good husband that did not deserve this! Looking into the mirror of that thought there is an arrogance peeking from behind my mask.

For me, not nessisarlly everyone else, the bottom line is, as some here have pointed out to me many times, the should and shouldn’t stance often leaves a person in a state of long-term suffering for what happened happened and all of the shoulds and shouldn’ts doesn’t change a dang thing. The bigger question is, what now?

Asterisk